BOG IDEAS & INSIGHT NEEDED (PICTURES, TOO....)

Mmathis

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GG -- Thanks!

Question: If there is already a berm, would I need to do footers to support a wall? I know the "footer" issue is going to be conflict point with Hubby, who doesn't think you need to "do all that." Overall height of wall will be 2 to 3 ft. high.
 
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With the stacking landscape blocks, yes, a compacted gravel footing... looking for a disc, but here;s a footing hubby did in a clients yard... depending on the block system, you may also need to use "geo grid" after a certain height...
 

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taherrmann4

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Mathis I did not put a footing in when I did mine. I just dug it down to solid dirt a few inches and then stacked my rock on it. My wall is about 18" tall in the back and 12" in the front. It is also like a bowl shape inside the bog, meaning the sides are sloped inside of it. I did not see any movement but will check after the winter and see if there was any issues. I don't anticipate any problems though.

It will depend what you are making the wall out of, since mine is rock if it does shift a little bit you will never be able to tell. I also did not mortar the rock in, it is dry stacked.
 
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Tman... yes, you can get away with doing it that way with a LOW, ROCK wall, but going 2-3' tall with BLOCKS, is a major gamble. Getting down to virgin ground helps, but then you really need to consider the soil composition IF skipping a footing, if you want it there for a lifetime (or YOUR choice to remove it) ... verses playing the game of time and pressure with Mother Nature... One of those "there is never enough time to do it the right way, but enough time to have to do it again"...
 

Mmathis

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Actually, the overall height will be around 2-3 feet, but the depression for the bog is only going to be, what, 18" with a lot of dirt fill under the liner. I will have to have the bog high enough for a decent waterfall return to the pond (trading out the waterfall for the bog).

When I've done garden walls, I had a footer, so guess that answers my question.

Where the edge of the built-up bog meets the edge of the pond, is any danger that the weight will cause problems like a collapse of the wall on that edge? Should I consider putting some distance between the 2 and if so, what would be safe? Should the footer be included there? Hope this is making sense...
 
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Which are you concerned with? The wall of the bog at the pond, or the wall of the pond from the bog being close? Wasnt sure which way to read above (blonde tonight)
 

Mmathis

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Ours was done using a simple grade change with rocks (more forgiving than wall block), no footer needed here...

Hmmm..... Can you still get a decent waterfall? Hubby has his heart set on a waterfall, but no ideas on how high up he would want it. I'll see what he says about a lower w/fall.

In response to your previous question, I think what I meant was concern over the weight of the bog pressing along the edge of the pond, causing the pond edge to collapse underneath. But then, if that happened, the bog would probably collapse, too. If we moved the bog back a foot or 2 from the pond edge, maybe we could play with a short stream.

Honestly, I don't know enough to know what I'm talking about. Sorry! That's why I need help.
 
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Dont worry, I have a problem with pond language so sometimes need things really spelled out well too:)

Not sure what you ,mean by decent water fall... volume or noise? We have all the drop we wanted for this one, but remember, your flow will depend on your pump too...

Hubby is saying you wouldnt have an issue with the wall of the pond letting go, the concern would be (if there was one) the wall of the bog ... It will all depend on exactly which type of block you go with, and how it is tied together. Without that info, it is a light bulb question... when will that light bulb burn out? Just no way of knowing.
 

addy1

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my bog water surface is around 8 inches higher than the pond water surface, separated just by a log wall, covered in pond liner, 27 feet long. No footer The log wall is 2.5 feet tall
 
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Walls
Only above ground bogs, just like ponds, would need walls. The higher you go the stronger the wall needs to be. For example, 6" above ground can just be a course of concrete blocks, no footer of any kind and no poured concrete. To go 16" high you'd probably want to fill the two courses with concrete. Filling them with just clay dirt and packing could give you years and years of service with a little movement over time, could bulge out next week. The poured concrete is more like insurance. When you start thinking of 20-24" you really need to be thinking blocks filled with concrete, and some rebar wouldn't hurt. In the 24-30" range rebar become important. 30-36" rebar is really need and footers become important. above 36" and you really start to need good standard building practices for your specific area, including footers, proper rebar and proper building practices.

You can use any building practice you like, it really only about risk and how much movement you consider acceptable. Using a liner can allow for walls to bulge and heave without any real harm, as long as you don't mind the look. Depending on climate and soil conditions you could get years of service. Most ponds don't last very long so there's little reason to build something to last forever.

Concrete ponds that have a painted on liner are very different, They require an extremely stable structure. Even the smallest heave or bulge will rip the membrane and cause a leak that really can't be fixed, only patched until the structure moves again.

Drain
Sounds logical. Bogs do indeed fill with waste and eventually will be completely full. For most ponds that's not really a problem. It's actually one of the bog's best features. A filter that lasts for 10+ years and never has to be cleaned. Cool.

Drains would be kind of cool if they worked, at all. "But I see dirty water come out!" Insignificant I say.


Distribution pipes
Another "improvement". Sure sounds like a good idea and they do no great harm. The trouble is water doesn't care about where you want it to go, it goes where it's easiest. Even if that means coming out the pipe and running right back along the pipe in the opposite direction you thought, that's where it will go. If it can all travel down the pipe and pop up at the end right next to the outflow, bypassing 90% of your bog, that's what it will do.

There's a Catch-22 with these distribution pipes deals. The holes have to be pretty large to keep from clogging. And given the number of holes I see often added means that maybe 10% of the holes can handle 100% of pump's outflow, so most of the bog, will be bypassed because flowing down the pipe to wherever is closest to the outflow is always going to be the easiest path.

It is better imo for the water to take the longest path. Every distribution pipe deal is going to reduce that. Not to mention that water falling onto the surface of the bog is way better bio filtering in just that small area than you'd get in the entire rest of the bog. Pile up the rocks at that inflow and increase capacity 10x (or some big number).

Settlement chamber
A bog is primarily a settlement chamber and they do it very well. Yeah, they do a little bit of this and that too, but not very well. And bogs are all about clearer water, not better water quality. Waste accumulates and decays in the bog and the results of the decay ends up in the water column just as sure as muck piling up on the bottom of the pond.

My bottom line
Bogs are great at what they do. Love them. For most water garden owners they're by far the best possible filter because most will hardly ever clean a filter. So for them you can't beat a bog. But they're really bad at other stuff, or at least there are way better choices today.

IMO a bog is a hole in the ground 12-18" deep filled with small rock and has water pumped in one side (just a single pipe on top) and water overflows another side. That's it. It's that simple.
 

Mmathis

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With the stacking landscape blocks, yes, a compacted gravel footing... looking for a disc, but here;s a footing hubby did in a clients yard... depending on the block system, you may also need to use "geo grid" after a certain height...
CW, I like those blocks! They look quite substantial and are attractive -- wonder if I can find something like that around here. What I was originally thinking about [besides "cinder blocks"] was the stacking landscape blocks, with the lip -- instead of stacking straight up, they stack "leaning" inward, toward the dirt pile. How tall is one of those blocks?

What is a "geo grid?"

WB -- Thank you! I always hope you'll post. I had read that bogs aren't the best for the bio-conversion process, but are great at filtration & as settlement chambers. And my biggest gripe with my pond is lack of adequate mechanical filtration. Several others here have mentioned that there is probably enough surface area in my pond to provide for the bio-part. I'm going start out on that premise. Then if I need more, sounds like it would help if I added a small trickle tower. I've seen lots of different ways to built a TT, so think I can do that, but is there a "rule of thumb" for what size to make it?
 

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