"Bottled Bacteria"

[barryian]

I was chatting with a friend of mine yesterday about the idea of beneficial bacteria or bottled bacteria for ponds and aquariums etc. and she made an interesting point. Number one she said that the majority of all bacteria that could be helpful would also be nearly impossible to keep viable in a bottle for more than 7 to 10 days and number two you could create a product 4 times as potent an effective with nothing more than a 5 gallon bucket some water and halogen lamp. I am going to ask her to write out a direct instructions on how to produce and verify homemade bacteria as well as her analysis on the store products.

If adding bacteria to a new pond is needed, they do sell nitobachter / Nitrosomonas by a company called TurboStart 700 . It is one of the only companies that you can buy it from. They ship overnight, ice packed and it will last 3 months refrigerated. I've used it 3 years ago when enlarging and rebuilding my pond. In 5 days my pond was seeding and ammonia gone. Quite amazing. UV must stay off for that time. It is quite costly but it was well worth it. Though the company doesn't sell direct anymore, you must ask them to sell direct as the dealers they sell to never have a fresh batch dated the day before...

http://www.fritzzyme.com/index.php?p=fritzzyme-turbostart

 

[Mucky_Waters]

The other thing is, we all know you don't need to add bacteria to a pond to seed a healthy nitrifying bacteria colony, as Mitch alluded to earlier with his example of the spruce trees.. The idea of adding bacteria from a bottle is in the hope it will jump start the colony and give it some sort of head start, not to provide something that you don't already have in there. In any tests studies that I've seen for outdoor ponds the head start they claim for these products is really insignificant. In Aquariums there is going to be a radical difference because you are dealing with a much smaller body of water in a much more sterile and temperature controlled environment.
If your goal is to kick start your bacteria colony in your pond you'd be much further ahead feeding the bacteria that are already in there with ammonia, oxygenate the water, and make sure the water temp is sufficiently warm enough that they will be able to multiply at an accelerated rate, and of course give them plenty of surface areas to grow on. Adding a bottle of bacteria, no mater how viable, won't do much of anything unless you take care of those 4 things, and if you take care of those 4 things you won't need any extra bacteria.

 

[DoDad]

You said that Keeton was the best, what makes it the best?

-My other reference was a general comment regarding other posts I've made regarding bacteria in a bottle product, not aimed at anyone in particular.

.

I have a 700 gallon Q tank with a eazypod filter. I never know when I'm going to buy a fish but I can have the
filter up and running in 4 days.
On my 14,000 gallon pond I treated for a fungal infection and forgot to bypass the filters and my ammonia went off the charts. I used cloram-x in the pond and in the filter Keeton Ki Nitrifier Revive.
4 days later It was good to go.
The only other product I would use is FritzZyme 7. I also don't sell it either.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

and make sure the water temp is sufficiently warm enough that they will be able to multiply at an accelerated rate

A point so often overlooked but the true lynch pin as to how fast a pond will cycle.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I have a 700 gallon Q tank with a eazypod filter. I never know when I'm going to buy a fish but I can have the
filter up and running in 4 days.
On my 14,000 gallon pond I treated for a fungal infection and forgot to bypass the filters and my ammonia went off the charts. I used cloram-x in the pond and in the filter Keeton Ki Nitrifier Revive.
4 days later It was good to go.
The only other product I would use is FritzZyme 7. I also don't sell it either.

OK, lets talk about what exactly "up and running" and "good to go" mean to you?
I read the White Paper study on that Kl Nitrifier product you mentioned, and their idea of "good to go" is more in the order of 22 - 28 days. A very thorough paper by the way. They even describe how they sterilized the water and materials before beginning the tests comparisons, which would be absolutely necessary to get any kind of meaningful results for this kind of experiment. The average ponder would likely never start with such a sterile beginning.

 

[DoDad]

Where did you find the white page? Good to go means 4 days for me.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Randy, the link to the 'white paper' doesn't work.

 

[MitchM]

Try this link for the white paper:
http://keetonaqua.com/ki-nitrifier-nitrifying-oxidizing-ammonia/

Dodad, because you were happy with using the product doesn't make it the best product.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the input from anyone that has the pond/aquaculture business as their profession. You folks deal with ponds on a level that most of us other members here do not. You need to make decisions that are both constructive and profitable. I know I wouldn't last 5 minutes dealing with the retail public.
-and if I read a statement that I think needs some backup information, I will ask for that backup information. I hope that if people read a statement I make, they feel comfortable to ask me for the required backup information.

With this bottled bacteria topic, I don't want people to get the idea that by adding the bacteria, the biofilm layer has been established and their pond can be fully stocked.
I want to remind everyone of what a biofilm layer actually consists of.
Please refer to Meyer Jordan's article on Periphyton from the Article section of this forum here:
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/periphyton-part-1.9/

.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Randy, the link to the 'white paper' doesn't work.

Thanks Meyer I didn't try the link, guess I screwed it up. Too late to edit the post now.

I believe this is a link to the product http://keetonaqua.com/products/beneficial-microbes/ki-nitrifier/ <<< This page has the link to the white paper.
and this is a direct link to the white paper on the product. http://keetonaqua.com/ki-nitrifier-nitrifying-oxidizing-ammonia/

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Good to go means 4 days for me.

Well that clears that up

I'll try rephrasing the question,,,,,> What do you feel happens on that 4th day that hasn't yet happened on the 2nd or 3rd day? What is the change that takes place that leaves you "good to go"?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thanks Meyer I didn't try the link, guess I screwed it up. Too late to edit the post now.

I believe this is a link to the product http://keetonaqua.com/products/beneficial-microbes/ki-nitrifier/ <<< This page has the link to the white paper.
and this is a direct link to the white paper on the product. http://keetonaqua.com/ki-nitrifier-nitrifying-oxidizing-ammonia/

Two quick takeaways from this white paper concerning this particular product.
!. It is, based on the white paper, formulated for Salt Water, not Fresh Water. each require different strains of bacteria.
2. Effective length of test period was 23 days. Comparable time of cycling to a system allowed to cycle naturally especially when it is factored in that Nitrite was still at detectable levels at day 23.

I am sure that there is more worth discussing,.

 

[DoDad]

That is just one example of their testing completed with KI Nitrifier. Each testing area has different environmental factors that effect results. Just ask keeton

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Well I'm still convinced the best and cheapest way to kick start biological activity in your pond is to pee in the water. Just fill up your pond and you are "Good to go"!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Well I'm still convinced the best and cheapest way to kick start biological activity in your pond is to pee in the water. Just fill up your pond and you are "Good to go"!

Gives Nitrospira something to do while waiting for Nitrite.

 

[Dave 54]

I agree. But, surely there is someway to test the product to see if anything is actually "alive" in it ? I would be willing to test a few products if I knew how to do it because the only bottled product I have used that really does work is algecide but I am always suspicious of many of the others for sale.

We Use Microbe_lift PL Filterpad innoculanmt Gel on our filters Marshall , hey suspenmd their bacteria in a gel which you apply to your filters leave in the air for one hour befoe topping the filter up again .
Personally its each to their own we swear by it .

Dave