bottom drain

[corius]

I got a 24x24 liner for basically nothing. I'm wanting to build a pond (obviously) that will be 6 feet deep at the deepest point. Planning on making a square that is 8x8x6. Rite now I have 2 1500gph submersible pumps that I will be using for rite now (got the liner and pumps at an estate sale for 60 bucks)

My big question is will i be able to plumb in a bottom drain and cap it off now so when finances allow I can get a 3000 gph pump and just connect it then or will it cause problem putting a bottom drain in with the liner. Also what would be a good option for the drain

 

[HTH]

A bottom drain can be useful without a pump.

If you shape the pond bottom so that there is significant slope to the drain you can simply open the drain value, or remove an end cap,. and it will flush the bottom of the pond. This assumes you can build the pond in a way that the cap on the drain pipe is six or so inches lower then the water level. Easy to do with a slope.

There are several DIY bottom drain solutions on the web. If you have EPDM liner it is easy. I did mine with just a stainless steel band clamp and a bit of extra liner.. Cut the liner hole smaller then the pipe so when you pull the liner over the pipe it flattens on the pipe for an inch or two. Pull a 2nd bit of liner over the first to protect it then install the band clamp. A 3rd bit of liner can be used to cover the band clamp. A slight depression in the area of the drain will let you have the pipe level with the bottom of the pond. After that all you need is something to keep the fish out. I have seen people use plastic colanders.

I used 4" sewer pipe to get the most flow which results in the best cleaning action.

It always amazed me at how much muck can be drained from a pond bottom like this.

 

[Waterbug]

Picture of bottom drain as a drain.

Pond acts as a settling tank.

But, for a more standard bottom drain system, yes you can install the pipes now and not use it until later. Keep in mind there's more to a BD system than just the drain. There's normally something pushing the crap to the drain, otherwise it just sits on the bottom and only a small area around the hole is actually cleaned. So you may want to ad pipes for Tangential Pond Returns (TPRs).

With that much liner and that size pond you have plenty of liner. You can install the BD and TPRs on top of the liner.

 

[corius]

Thanks for the picture it helps allot. I'm just trying to get everything taken care of now do later I'm not having to drain everything. So a better question would be if u could add something when your pond was built what would it have been

 

[Waterbug]

Depends on the pond and what the owner's goals are. In a Wildlife Pond a skimmer and bottom drain are bad things, they want a build up of muck for the food chain. In a high end Koi Pond skimmers, BD systems and much more are a requirement to keep the $$$ fish alive. Water Garden Ponds can range anywhere in between these extremes.

When I build ponds for people I had a list of questions and configured the pond to their answers.

How clear do you want the water?
[ ] Doesn't matter.
[ ] At least can see the bottom.
[ ] Very clear.
[ ] Clear enough to be able to read a newspaper in 3' of water.

Kind of fish you want?
[ ] Goldfish
[ ] Koi

Number of fish?

How much food do you want to feed fish?
[ ] Never
[ ] Few times a month.
[ ] Few times a week.
[ ] Two times a day.
[ ] Many times a day (auto feeder)

I wouldn't actually give owners a sheet of questions, but these are the kinds of things I had to find out. For example, if the the owners said their budget for Koi was $50k that alone answers most of the questions.

 

[HTH]

A lot depends on what you want to do with the pond. Here are a few things I that maybe helpful.

In Colorado we used to move all the lilies to our deepest pond for the winter and back out for spring. That is too much work.

A better idea is to build a pond where you can lower the level six inches, a foot or 18 inches (depending on thick your ice gets) in the spring when the lilies are putting out their first leaves. Once they get a good start raise the water level about 4 inches every few days and the plants will follow it up. Most varieties will be happy with this.

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Ease of cleaning is one thing that I try to keep in mind.
One back saving feature is to build a pond that consists of several submerged basins.

This allows you to pump one basin dry for cleaning after moving the plants and fish to one of the others.

I would drain the water and use the shop vac to get most of the stuff on the bottom. After the sun dried what was left it can be removed with a broom and dust pan. By doing this you can get rid of the fry eating dragon fly larvae without using nasty chemicals.

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I like to have both filtration and significant aeration. Should one fail the other will keep the fish alive. This is a belt and suspenders sort of thing.

If you want nice look at dperry's info on making your own rocks and edging from his special concrete mix.

Try to avoid the necklace of rocks look.

Third, We’ll never create what we call the “necklace effect.” Many contractors string the pond perimeter with rocks to create a necklace of rocks, thereby ruining any hope for a natural look.

Spend time looking at nice ponds on the web.

 

[HTH]

@Waterbug

Do you do the thing where you bring the grass up to the waters edge and would you care to share how that is best done ?

 

[Waterbug]

This pic shows two options, pressure treated wood and just bond beam block around the edge.

The bond beam block is easiest. Easy to just set the block on dirt and easy to make sure all the blocks are level. Because the middle of the block is open you can tuck the liner into the block and fill with soil (after the pond is filled). The result is about 2" of exposed liner which I cover with fake rock.

Then grass can be planted in the block. The block is open so the plants can grow into the ground. I've tried lots of different plants and as they spread over the edge into the pond the growth that touches the water dies so it's self trimming.

You can use the bond beam block as is or use a hammer to knock down the back edge.

The pressure treated or plastic edging thing is more work and expense but you can get a more curving. But you can get good curves with just the block.

I also like the block because people can stand right on the edge and no worry of the bank breaking down.

People can choose to lay rock on top if they like, but I'm also not a fan of the necklace look.

 

[HTH]

Thanks waterbug you are a fountain of knowledge.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I think the first key to having a nice pond edge is hiding the liner. For me nothing detracts from the looks of a nice natural looking pond more than having some rubber liner exposed all around the shore line. Of course some people aren't really trying to duplicate a natural looking pond. Many koi keepers want a more formal looking pond, something that looks more like a swimming pool for koi, than a natural pond, and much like a swimming pool, a little bit of liner showing all around the edge is just fine.

But I think a rock necklaced pond can look natural if it's done right. The way I see it, Waterbug's pond edging design and Dperry's faux rock edging idea are both rock necklaced, since they are both still using "fake rock" to hide the liner around the edge. Thing is any liner pond has to have the liner come above the water line all around the edge, you have to hide that somehow if you want the pond edge to look "natural", usually it is hidden with rock, real or fake, then sometimes plants are grown to hide the rock.

I've feel there are 3 keys to having a natural rock necklaced pond edge,
One is to have the rock shoreline disappear into the water.
Two is to not have a defined edge, it should be irregular so you can't tell exactly where the water and the land meet.
Three, have lots of plants growing along the shore and in the water to fill in and further blend shore and the water together.
I try to plant creeper plants in the soil next to the edge of the pond, so these creeper plants will grow over the rocks and into the water, and as Waterbug pointed out they generally stop there, but some plants like creeping jenny will grow into the water to a certain degree, and that's fine, it helps blend the shore so it is not so defined.

This picture that Howard the Humble posted is a typical un-natural looking rock necklaced pond with a very defined edge, and a ring of liner showing all around. It lacks any of the three key points I mentioned.

Here is a picture of my "rock necklaced" pond which I have striven to adhere to those 3 keys points.

It might be considered an unfair comparison since the first pond picture was obviously not taken in the prime growing season, but even without the plants in my pond the first 2 keys I mentioned are still apparent. (no visible liner, no defined edge)

 

[HTH]

Mucky_Waters asid


But I think a rock necklaced pond can look natural if it's done right

I did not say one could not use rocks. As you pointed out, if it is done right it can be very nice and it that case it is not a rock necklace.

 

[Waterbug]

Purely one's opinion. Everyone should have the pond they want.

I'm also not fond of ponds jammed into the corner of a fence. Just not my thing.