complete noob...

[JCschild]

Hi,
i need help lots of it please!
i feel odd being the noob posting. the forums i normally post in i am the expert.
time to humble myself and beg for mercy and yes i have read thru a good number of posts.

so i built a 3 level pond (3 total) waterfalls on a side of a slope most if it in direct sun

each one is 10 x 6 x 30-36" deep

my neighbor has a smaller 2 level pond set up and has it for 8 yrs
he uses no filter has at least 20 fish (koi) the largest is about 12"
his edm has moss or something growing on it and has fairly dirty water yet his fish do not die? he hs one large plant

while prior to building i did look around the web more at what building products were used rather than paying attention to filtration
i finished it toward the end of summer last yr and since i also have no filter it got somewhat dirty but then winter set in.
i turned off the pump for the winter
all 4 of my fish survived

well with this very hot spring i am already getting what looks like polyps growing and the water is pretty dirty.

regardless of what my neighbor says i know i need a filter.

my pump is a 2500GPH from homedepot (yeah i know amateur) It has 1.5" pipe that runs about 25' and up about 7'

and just shoots into the top pond (never liked the force it has)

so question 1, how is it my neighbors fish live? when he gave me a fish last week that poor fish swam at the top in what looked like he was gasping for air
now he has settled down and tends to hang out at the bottom

2) i have seen these filter box/ waterfalls, but they always say use with a skimer.
why cant i just attach it to the pump like i have it?

3) how bad is it to add water from my hose

thanks for the help

Scott

 

[fishin4cars]

I'm going to answer your questons in reverse order. As for using a hose, just be sure and run water through it each time so it's not water that has been standing in the line for some time as that water can be extremely hot if the hose has been in the sun, and it can contain higher than normal chemical leaching than water that has been flowing for a few minutes.
Now as for a skimmer, you don't have to have a skimmer, but in my opinion this is one of the best pieces of equipment you can purchase besides a pump. they remove the film that restricts oxygen exchange in the water, it removes the largest of the debris from the water greatly increasing the biological load the filter can handle, and they make the overall effeciency of any filter better.
Now for filters, in some ponds if the oxygen and plants are balanced the pond and the plants, rocks, stream, and all act as a filter as they can contain the beneficial bacteris needed to help breakdown waste, unfortunatly, there will become a day when the fish grow to a point that they will out weigh that balance. the problem with that method is that once the fish do out grow the balance there won't be much that pond keeper will be able to do to help when a problem forms except add filter or get rid of fish, and nature WILL take care of that part if they don't. Filters don't have to be expensive or fancy, they need good oxygen, water flow, and a place for bacteria to grow and filter the water.

 

[Waterbug]

his edm has moss or something growing on it and has fairly dirty water yet his fish do not die? ... how is it my neighbors fish live?

99% of Koi grown in the past 1,000 years have been grown in what most people would call dirty water.

regardless of what my neighbor says i know i need a filter.

Then you should get a filter. You're free to get any filter you like since it is for you and unrelated to the fish. Testing water is how you determine if the fish need a filter. Seeing a fish gulp some air isn't a very good test even for experienced keepers. Keeping fish and collecting filters are two separate hobbies although they sometimes overlap.

It's your pond and your fun. You should do as you like. If you were doing this as a business and your family was depending on the income that would be another matter. Only in that case would it be useful to try and learn from your neighbor's experience.

 

[DrCase]

Welcome to the Forum
I would build a 55 gal drum filter behind the top waterfall

 

[JCschild]

99% of Koi grown in the past 1,000 years have been grown in what most people would call dirty water.

a bit of an understatement no? and most were biologically balanced i would assume.

Then you should get a filter. You're free to get any filter you like since it is for you and unrelated to the fish. Testing water is how you determine if the fish need a filter. Seeing a fish gulp some air isn't a very good test even for experienced keepers. Keeping fish and collecting filters are two separate hobbies although they sometimes overlap.

are you trying to be a wise guy? or is this an atempt at humor?

i have no desire to "collect" filters any filter i install is 100% having to due with fish health and water clarity.

It's your pond and your fun. You should do as you like. If you were doing this as a business and your family was depending on the income that would be another matter. Only in that case would it be useful to try and learn from your neighbor's experience.

?? even less sense that previous comments. having read many of your posts (helpful ) i have to wonder what that was all about


to the others who posted thank you

DRCase,
55 Gal for a 2500 gallon pond?
seems excessive, not to mention a huge amount of work digging a hole big enough for that monster.

Scott

 

[baeya]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I have had a pond for many years now and never really understood how they worked. The water was so green that we only saw the fish when I fed them. I knew they needed oxygen so we always made sure the falls was running really well.

My pond went through a very cool transformation last year after joining this forum. If you have time, click on my first link and look at my story. The fish can and do live in green water without any problems but, if you want to see and enjoy your fish, then proper filtration is a must.

 

[sissy]

I have made mistakes with filters also but have learned a lot on here .Actually the koi farm where i go you should see how mucky there water is ,but they sure have healthy fish .My koi I bought from there and they were healthy and still healthy and they were only a couple of inches long when I got them and now my biggest are over 2 feet long .I only lost one fish and he jumped out my fault totally .I have 13 fish and have fantails and butterfly and fancy tail and 1 shubbie now as the mate was the jumper and my 2 biggest koi Aggie and Bert .I want to see my fish so clear water is good .I have 2 filters one on each end of the pond but have found out that aeration keeps the pond water really clear .I'm the crazy lava rock lover on here and have it in both filters .That's me it works and I stay with what works for me and sure others feel the same way about there filters also .If it works why would anyone want to change but if it doesn't work why not .Most home made filters on here work and each person either loves there's or are willing to try something new and find something that works .I think every filter has it's advantages and all you can do is try if it fails then you try someone else's filter idea as most are not that expensive to build .

 

[Shdwdrgn]

55 Gal for a 2500 gallon pond?
seems excessive, not to mention a huge amount of work digging a hole big enough for that monster.

I use two 55-gallon filters on my 1200-gallon pond. The higher your filtration, the more fish you can safely keep in your pond. Even so, my filters will not keep up with the initial algae growth as the water warms up, and I may have a few weeks of green water, but this is not harmful to the fish.

Most people do not bury their filters, but rather use them to create some falls. I sunk my barrels about 12 inches into the ground, then used the output from both to create a large waterfall over my main pond. A bit of black spraypaint helps cover up the color of the barrels, then you can plant heavily around them with tall grasses to make the barrels completely disappear. Your pump is probably just about the right size to push water through one or two of these filters, and the filters will help calm down the output. One nice thing about the larger filters is that because of their size, they are 'nearly' maintenance-free.

 

[JCschild]

[sub]thanks guys (and girls)[/sub]

[sub]glad i found this forum. just looking at filters and media i was ready to drop $500+[/sub]
[sub]and thats without the skimmer.[/sub]
[sub]funny i can build a house from start to finish (excavation to trim) but i cant keep a pond clean[/sub]

[sub]i guess i should post pics. i already have multiple waterfalls including one at the top. so i might could sqeeze 1 55 gal but would have to bury most of it my fisrt fall is only about 16" tall and really have very little room to back it up futher[/sub]
[sub]i maybe could make it another 12" higher which would require going back at least that far, i have at beast about 20" in the back to add on or it hits my walkway[/sub]

[sub]the weir waterfall./filter is looks best to me as it would make a better looking waterfall than the fire hose look i have now (hate it) and poke right into what i have. but its small size does scare me.[/sub]

[sub]to be clear (pun intended) my water isnt actually green its a little murky with mostly brown gunk on the liners the air gulping koi that now sits on the bottom of the middle pool i can see very well the smaller ones in the top pool have to swim up to at least the middle before i see them[/sub]

[sub]thanks[/sub]
[sub]scott[/sub]

 

[Shdwdrgn]

The brownish gunk on the liner is actually normal, and helps make the pond look more natural. Most folks who lay down a new pond can't wait for that stuff to form so it hides the shiny rubber.

Your waterfalls are great for your fish... they add a ton of oxygen to the water, and help break down waste a little faster. If you don't have a waterfall, then an air stone would be required.

As for adding a 55-gal filter, the barrel will need to be about 6" higher than the waterfall, and it's easy enough to sink a small amount of the barrel until it matches the height of your existing falls. You cut holes near the top of the barrel for the water to flow out of, and most people will install 2 or 3 smaller pipes rather than a single larger pipe, so that the water flowing out is spread more, essentially creating your own weir. This output can drop directly into the pond, or it can flow out onto the top of your waterfall area. There are a hundred ways you can set it up to incorporate the new filter into your existing setup.

Oh, regarding your earlier question of running your hose directly into the pond... With the amount of water you have, the new water will have a chance to dissipate a little before getting to your fish, however any amount of chlorine in the water can burn their gills, and it takes 24 hours for chlorine to dissolve out of the water. I did it for years, but there's no telling if it hurt my fish. These days I play it safe. You can get a concentrated powder that removes the chlorine as you fill, and its really cheap. I picked up a container last year that treats something like 50,000 gallons (1 tablespoon per 5,000 gallons), and it only cost $8, so now I put in a small amount every time I top off the pond.

 

[sissy]

Remember as it was forgotten do you have well water or city water as city water has chemicals in it .True about the water I have barrels and my water goes in a barrel before it goes in my pond especially after hard rains and I have well water and it goes tjrough my filter system in the house before it even gets in my pond .

 

[Waterbug]

most were biologically balanced i would assume.

I don't know what that means. If it means the fish didn't die, then yes, biologically balanced.

i have no desire to "collect" filters any filter i install is 100% having to due with fish health and water clarity.

I'm not being a wise guy. Lot's of people, myself included, like to build filters even though they are not needed. They're fun to build and screw around with. Your post didn't mention a desire for better "fish health", or any mention of poor water quality like high ammonia. You did say your water was "dirty" which could mean many things and be fixed by several different types of filters.

A Skippy type filter sounds like it would be exactly what you're after. Many people think it balances water and clears dirty water. Or any manufactured filter that uses generic terms like "balance" and cost under say $300. They're built specific for the first time pond owner market.

Sorry you didn't like my post.

 

[JCschild]

thanks guys
its getting clearer to me. man i love forums..

where would i post about waterfall leaks?

and what about those gunk eatting snails? are they worth it.

waterbug, yeah i may have to go that route.. i liked the simplicity of the weir and just tossing a bag of media in there but i have limited time to play.
i work 50 hours a week (own a biz) and have plenty of chores around the property and a 9 yr old and wife who want attention (thus no time to "collect" filters)
would like to set it and forget it..and only have to fool with about as much as i do the pool filter.

Scott

oh and i have gutter nearly directly over the pond (metal roof) i could easily install a downspout or rain barrel to fill the pond..

 

[Shdwdrgn]

I drain the gunk out of the bottom of my filters maybe 3-4 times a year (takes just a couple minutes), and in the Spring I will add a bottle of biological bacteria to the pond to kick-start the filters. That is the entirety of my filter maintenance. Like I said above... 'nearly' maintenance-free. The only time I have to put any real effort into maintenance is in the Fall, because my pond is directly underneath a large tree, so I have to net out leaves on a daily basis. Other than that, I don't spend any time on water quality.

Japanese trap door snails... I've heard great things about them too, and just received an order of 50 this weekend. The water is still too cold for them to be very active yet, but I know the snails we have in our aquariums do a LOT of cleanup, so I have high hopes for these guys as well. There's a thread under "Garden Pond Talk" discussing these snails.

Your post about leaks can go under several different sections. There are also old discussions about other folks finding leaks, so you may find your answer there.

If you have the option to collect water from your roof into a barrel first, I would suggest that. It gives you a chance to filter out any oils, sticks and leaves, and whatever before they go into your pond. I would think just tapping the barrel about a foot up from the bottom would give you a nice clean stream of water without any extra junk that could be washed off the roof.

@Waterbug - I didn't like your comment either... can I have a refund? :razz:

 

[sissy]

Ponds are never as easy as they sound and yes trapdoor snails do some cleaning but you would need a lot of them .I saw where they had them at the place where I bought them and how they have them in several other ponds at the pond garden center and it takes a lot of them to really do any real cleaning that you will notice and they don't live that long . With fish tanks you can see how well they clean but with ponds you can only guess at how well they clean unless you have a see through pond .I have them and they had babies after they arrived ..I see a lot on you tube about those pond builders that want to sell you everything under the sun to keep your pond clean and clear and after a couple of thousand dollars ,good gosh I would hope it is clean .They say it but does it work ,I guess if you pay them to do all the work maybe and pay for there service each year ,maybe .I have seen a couple of so called pro. installed ponds and some times wonder about the cost and if it was really worth it .There is one here at dana's garden center that does pond installs and he charges from 5 thousand dollars and up ,not sure what you get for 5 thousand dollars but would hope it is a lot but doubt it .He has his signs up by his ponds at the garden and pond center area .Funny thing is I look at the ponds he built and a lot of the ponds I see here are a thousand percent nicer than what he builds .yes the rocks he uses are pretty and the fish are pretty ,but again they are rocks and fish are they not all pretty .