Dead fish in goldfish pond

[Litzi1964]

I use Easystrips 6 in 1. Assuming the values on Easystrips are in ppm, then your total alkalinity and total hardness is very high, dangerously so. Well water is notoriously hard, at least around here. The fish sound like they have alkalosis, which is from high alkalinity. The hard water will also affect osmoregulation, which is kind of like electrolyte balance in people. You need to lower the pH and hardness asap!

 

[CountryEscape]

OK, do you have suggestion for lowering the hardness? This is the same hardness I've always had, I'm pretty sure! I may be figuring the numbers wrong, too. I go by the chart on the KH and GH kit. It says if you use X number of drops, it would be this ppm number. Since it goes up to only 12, I assume for a 16, I should add the 12 and 4 totals, at least that's the way my math mind works. But, like I said, this is what I've always had, fairly high KH/GH, and they have always been fine. I would have to look back on my numbers in my Goldfish pond thread. I know the PH is not high, though, not at all. Goldfish and koi do very well at 8.4, and both of my ponds are below that.
I'm going to PM Larkin, see what he thinks. I was hoping he would message again on this thread, but by the looks of his yard in his thread, he's been VERY busy! :blueflower:

 

[fishin4cars]

PM sent. I do not know about (( The fish sound like they have alkalosis, which is from high alkalinity. The hard water will also affect osmoregulation, which is kind of like electrolyte balance in people)) I would like to hear more and any references on this. I haven't heard of this before but worth checking into before acting on. PH is fine, no need to adjust, adjusting is more dangerous than a 8.0-8.3 reading. I've been keeping in that range for several years and have not lost a fish from ANY illness or unknown reasons for years, Can't say I haven't lost any fish, had one jump out, one get trapped in a rock and plant avalanche, and had a herd removed by predator birds. But no losses from high stable PH.

 

[CountryEscape]

OK, heading out to run a trickle water change overnight, check water numbers in the morning see if any change in anything, and post again. Thanks everyone for your help and concern . Stay tuned .... :blueflower:

 

[CountryEscape]

Decided to do a late night water test on nitrates and GH/KH readings. I know that readings can be different at night than during the day for some things, so not sure if that is what is making the nitrates different, but they are down to zero, or at the most between 0-5. The GH dropped from 501 to 447. KH dropped a little, too, from 286 to 266. I'm running a trickle water flow all night, have a shut off on the end of the hose kind of "blowing" the water out, instead of simply dribbling it into the pond, thinking that will add more oxygen. Have had the large air pump running a huge amount of air into the water since this morning, going to leave it running again all night. Will see how the fish are fairing come morning. Time to hit the sack! :goodnight:

 

[Fishylove]

Whoa CE, you've been busy! Sorry about your fishies That's really odd that this has happened, even more odd it happened while you were out of town. The weather was actually on the cool side at times while you were gone. I wonder, if maybe something got hold of one of your fish, and if it dying and being in there for some time could cause the nitrate level to raise? Is the algae getting bad too? Well I hope everything goes well, I know you'll figure it out
Oh and to the giving away of your plants at this point. I don't think it should be a problem, just who ever gets them, be sure they dunk them in a salt solution of 1lb of salt in 5gals of water, for 10-15 seconds.

 

[CountryEscape]

Thanks, Fishy!!! I still will feel more comfy not to send any plants from that pond until I know for certain. Yes, it's very possible a fish died, and the problem started with the decaying fish. Found another very decayed fish on the bottom of the pond, only ribs and some flesh left. Then there also was a larger fish that was under the basket that the bubbler aerator is weighted onto, might have gotten into the milk crate when I dropped it, and I didn't see it, or got in there and couldn't get out. Need to not use those anymore for larger fish. Ho hum .... good news is the white fish is still there, looks much better. Didn't see the 2 fantails, so not certain about them. At least I didn't find them dead. Things still don't seem to be normal, though. Didn't trickle the water all night, but AM doing it today. Wanted to set up a pipe to make the draining water go away from the pond edge quicker, instead of draining slowly at the outside pond wall. Also since didn't do the trickle water change last night, not going to do any water tests this morning, don't have time. My life this week is "don't have time" for just about everything I had planned to do. Not sure why I waited until the last week to get few things done. Oh, wait, that's what I do!!! :blueflower: Most of the things on my "to-do" list didn't have to be done, so it's ok. Just that I wanted things more "perfect" for when my sister and her family arrives on Fri. Oh well, such is life!

 

[fishin4cars]

I wouldn't pass plants on until I know for sure what I was dealing with. never want to pass on a problem to someone else especially when your giving away to a friend. Won't hurt to wait a little while to find out if it's a water problem issue or a actual disease your dealing with. CE, see if you can find a box of API 5 in 1 test strips. Not the most accurate test but they are close if new. This may actually give you a easier to read KH and GH reading. I picked a box up at our LFS for $15. It seems to be right on with the liquid tests but the strips are by far easier to read IMO. I use them for quick spot checks. When in doubt then I use my liquid tests for a verification. I don't recommend relying on strips, but having them for a second reading and peace of mind is worth the $15 to me. Seeing a loser KH and GH reading from day to night reading makes me wonder if your getting enough Oxygen in the pond to de-gas the well water. Keep checking and logging the readings down since you added the additional aeration and see if the GH and KH readings continue to drop. Also check how much water your dripping into the pond, set it in a 5 gallon bucket until it fills and see how long it takes. When dripping to constant water change you want to change out aprox. 1-2 gallons of water per 1000 gallons per hour. 10,000 gallon pond I change out between 280-300 gallons per day. 24/7 Yes, my water bill has gone up a whopping $14 a month but for no real water changes, it's again worth the extra cost over the extra work.
BTW, if your Nitrates have dropped to that low of a reading in that short of a time frame I doubt you had enough in the pond to actually harm the fish. Nitrates aren't deadly to fish in low #'s if kept stable or low they are beneficial to plants, and encourage plant growth. Plants provide Oxygen, food, hiding, and shade. all beneficial. Nitrate readings in my NATURAL pond this morning, 30ppm, Not a thing I can do about it as it is a 1.5 acre pond. I was just curious this morning to see what kind of reading I got. I still think something triggered the die off that had to do with something while you were gone. Any chemical or spray used around the pond, insect repellent, something on their hands, etc. Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[CountryEscape]

After checking water levels last night and GH/KH were higher instead of lower, found that my well water is even higher yet. However, I've also been informed that high levels don't necessarily harm the fish, and knowing that my water has ALWAYS been high, thinking that's probably not my problem. PH is not jumping around, ammonia and nitrite remains low, and nitrate is anywhere between 5 and 20, so not nigh at all.

So, this morning I caught the white goldfish that had been showing signs of stress since Sunday, not swimming freely, more hovering at the water surface. It doesn't seem to be "gulping" for air at all, just hanging at the top. Also caught an orange goldfish that was showing the same signs this morning, it was a little harder to catch, but got the job done. I'm seeing some redness at the gills on the white fish, and maybe some at the base of the tail.



Hoping these pics will help give some more clues as to what is going on. No more dead fish that I can find, although did not see the 2 stressed 3" fantails this morning. Looked under the lily leaves, and skimmer is being left open to check it morning and evening, and not finding them anywhere. I'm worried, but unless and until I find them dead, nothing I can do but hope they are ok.

Thanks again for all your help everyone!!!

 

[CountryEscape]

Didn't see the white fish this morning, but DID see the red speckled fantail that was equally as stressed on Sun through Tues., didn't see it yesterday. Whew! I think the combination of air bubbler going and added salt yesterday is helping. Still seeing a couple that are not as active as what I would call normal, but have not found any dead for 4 days now. There could be dead ones on the bottom or under the lily leaves, but hoping not. Moved pads yesterday as much as possible and looked really well, nothing. Still would like to know if the red on the gills is an indication of some disease. Anyone know???

 

[fishin4cars]

CE, Sorry I didn't get back on yesterday, had electricians and the carpenters here all day. Was completely exhausted from the heat yesterday. IMO, that looks typical for ammonia, With none present I would still think there may be a possibility of gill flukes. I can see the redness at the gills, the redness toward the tail could be lack of oxygen if that's what it is. This also may explain why the die offs have subsided for now, the additional oxygen in the water may be helping to hold some of the other fish more stable. however that could possibly be only temporary. You may try removing a few of the fish in most distress and try treating them for flukes in a smaller tank. I would try treating the pond until I knew what I was battling. So hard to say exactly what it "MIGHT" be. I can't say we have eliminated out that some of the problem isn't water quality. I just haven't found any information that would show where a high GH and KH would cause these types of issues.

 

[Mmathis]

CE, I've been following this. Though probably NOT an issue at all, but worth asking: How old is your testing kit?

OK, I'm a newbie, and I've probably fallen for one of the oldest tricks, but I read in several places that test reagents should be replaced yearly, despite their stated expiration dates. Earlier in the summer I was having "issues" with my KH/GH results and noticed that the bottles for those didn't have an exp date. I already knew my other bottles weren't dated, but had purchased them all at the same time, same store, almost exactly a year prior. So, to play it safe, I went ahead and bought all new kits. I was immediately getting more consistent results on the KH, so am certain at least THAT bottle was past its prime.

 

[Dave 54]

Really sorry I missed this I think Larkin has called it correctly and that it could very well be flukes , however its hard to diagnose on line .
As he suggests treat the worst effected in a tank then if neccessary treat the pond "do not use Superverm to treat this if you do you will end up with no fish as goldfish unlike koi die when exposed to this organophosphate.
Yo'll have to search out an alternate treatment for them, am I correct in saying you have salted the pond ?
In future dont as salt doesn't evaporate and has to be removed by waterchanges why because in some cases the chemicals used react with salt and if the right conditions are met it can turn the water toxic .
Do you have a large koi style air pump if so it may be a good idea to to use the manifold to run extra airlines to points around the pond for maximum aireation around the pond as people starting to report falls in Ph etc during this hot summer .
Remember to invest in drop test kits and throw away those strip test kits as they can be wildely imaccurate
Maggie we found the best way to use chemicals is by using the much smaller bottles, this way there is much less wastage, and money will be saved :B) .


rgrds


Dave

 

[mtpond]

CE sorry to hear about your fish . When I saw the picture of your white goldfish my first thought was high ammonia. Like mmathis wondering how old your test kits are. Not sure how long the test kits last but being in reef tanks I was buying new kits regularly.

 

[Mmathis]

Gill flukes: are they something you can "scrape" for, or are they the ones you have to clip gill tissue?