Do fish Feel pain ?

[CometKeith]

Dave.I understand what you are saying, but the scientific community expects people to publish papers in well regarded journals when they have discovered something new. This way the work can be authenticated and reviewed by their peers. Also it legitimizes who made the discovery and when. If she really found something new then this would have been the expected path. Typically books and newspaper articles come later. No one ever won a nobel prize in science or medicine by writing a book. It's always based on scientific papers that have been published in certain well regarded science or medicine journals. If she does cite existing scientific work in her book that's fine, but I don't see how she came out with a breakthrough in "fish pain" research by just citing previously published papers.

 

[Mmathis]

My point is if you won't put it on the forum, you shoukdnt pm it with the intent to keep your nose clean on the public forum. The real point of a PM is to send personal information or other info you don't need the rest of the forum/world to see. Not to call names. Do you think the point of PM is to call names?

The purpose of a PM is whatever the conversants want it to be!

Guys, please stop posting this nonsense -- you are hijacking a thread and distracting the readers from the content, going totally off-topic!

 

[dieselplower]

The purpose of a PM is whatever the conversants want it to be!

Guys, please stop posting this nonsense -- you are hijacking a thread and distracting the readers from the content, going totally off-topic!

Uh hello that was way over until you brought it up again! Stop stirring the pot!

 

[Dave 54]

Most non-fiction books have a bibliography at the end. These, in many cases, are scientific articles and papers that the author has cited within the text of the book. I have not read the book that Dave references, but he states that the author is a researcher. So it almost a certainty that this book has a sizable bibliography and that much of it will be peer-reviewed scientific documents. Am I correct in my assumptions, Dave?

I believe shes a professor of Fisheries and biology at the Penn State University is also a visiting professor of Biology University of Bergen Norway.
She graduated Oxford University with a PhD in animal behavour , working first at the University of Glasgow then , the University of Edinburough , she developed a program investigating fish cognition and behaviour.
She has published a broad range of topics using many fish species, but in 2003 her group was among the first to pubish work investigating pain perseption in trout.
In 2006 she was awarded the Fisheries Scociety of the British Iles Medal in recognition of her contribution to fish biology
Yes indeed there is a sizable biblography at the end of the book including some of her jointly published works and those of many others

Dave

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Koi are called the warrior fish by the Japanese this is because when the magio were eaten in their version of America's thanks giving slices are taken from them to eat whilst the fish is still alive.
it is said they dont flinch or show any pain but is this true?
Can they indeed feel pain , well I've decided to look into this and have bought this book Do Fish Fell Pain by Victoria Braithwaite ISBN 9780199551200.
Its findings may well effect the welfare of our koi when it comes to treating them , Victoria whilst writng this book came under attack from the angling fraternity for spreading Myths and Lies.
Whilst others welcomed her reseach, anyway what are your thoughts on this subject, do we have to look into the way we treat them when easpecially when treating for parasites with the chemicals we use presently I mean what are their effects on them.
What about when we have to do surgery on them what then, just what are they really feeling , is this in fact a welcome question to be asking, should we infact ignore her findings , I think the answer should be no as we have a duty of care.
Which if ignored especially in the UK could land us in court charged by the RSPCA after the United Kingdom tightened up on the matter of animal welfare and introduced the New Animal Welfare Bill here in the UK which the BKKS fought long and hard to have koi and their welfare included in
Up until we bought the book I'd never thought about this issue before nor had Val, whats your own take on this subject is has Victoria in her research opened up a whole new can of worms so to speak?

Dave

I bought this book last night (downloaded it to my kindle) I only read a little bit of it but I think I will find it interesting.

 

[Mmathis]

@bettasngoldfish A download! I didn't think of that!

I've never downloaded a book [though Hubby does it all the time, and he installed the KINDLE app on my iPad]. Found this one on AMAZON. Is it the same cost as the printed book?

 

[bettasngoldfish]

I paid $19.24 for the kindle version, I didn't even look at what the paper back or hard back book cost. Kindle versions are usually a little cheaper than a hard copy.

 

[Mmathis]

I paid $19.24 for the kindle version, I didn't even look at what the paper back or hard back book cost. Kindle versions are usually a little cheaper than a hard copy.

Thanks! When I looked it up, all I saw was the book price and didn't go any further through the page to find a KINDLE price -- this is new to me, so I'm learning. Soon Hubby will be complaining about all the books I'm downloading instead of all the $$ I'm spending on CANDY CRUSH, LOL!

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Yea, Being able to purchase books online instantly is a scary easy way to spend money believe me I know....

What's really cool is you can download a sample of the book for free before you spend money on it (it's usually 2-3 chapters)

 

[Dave 54]

Oh yes Maria I agree but I've learned to shop around the latest book site acctually gives you money off the Edward Norga book we are waiting for was a good £40 cheaper on the site I told you about which you can sign up to by the way ,
I see like us your finding Victorias book very imformative and alot of soul searching or is that just my take on the book nut I've found myself looking at every treatment I've ever done on koi to see if I could have perhaps done things better or faster with less stress to the fish , is my husbandry of the pond and filters enough and with as little stress to them as possible.
it is infact opening up a pandoras box of questions, that need to be thought out , I think you'll agree ?
Dave