ELECTRICAL CONSIDERATIONS -- 2

[Mmathis]

WOW! There was so much discussion for my OP, that I thought it best to start a new topic for a related question. BTW, I appreciated reading the discussions. They reinforce the fact that I need to know where I'm going with my project ideas! THANKS!

Next, related question: what is [is there?] the maximum [safe] distance to have the pump from the outlet?

In addition to building my pond, I will have to add on some more space to my turtles' living quarters. They are just reaching sexual maturity, so will need to keep the boys & girls separated. I have been re-thinking my original "house plans" and have an idea or two that could end up putting the common pond area closer to the house.

So, wondering how best to work with these ideas. Will definitely be having another circuit added, but would prefer to have it on the back porch.

 

[HARO]

Most pond pumps come with a cord in the 12' to 18' range, and extension cords are not recommended, so that would limit your range. John

 

[jneg]

Like Haro said if you don't put in a new circuit for your pond the farther would be the length of the pump cord. The main concern is voltage drop with a long cord. If the voltage drops the current will increase to maintain the load (pump consumption). This is just the very basic Ohm's Law for Power=Voltage x Current. This can be solved by just increasing the wire gauge of the connection. Most power cords are use a wire gauge that is not appropriated for extended use (gauge too low). As an Electrical Engineer I would just do the extra circuit the right way and be done with that.

 

[Mmathis]

Well, if I move the pond closer to the house..... I need to get out the tape measure and see where I stand with distances.

 

[addy1]

My honey says he will have the electric wired before snow falls, well missed that deadline with an unusual snow this weekend. I have my pump running on an extension cord, but a real heavy duty one. Don't recall the gauge, but I can barely carry the cord it is so heavy. That could be an option until you can get it wired, buy one of those real heavy duty cords.

 

[jneg]

My honey says he will have the electric wired before snow falls, well missed that deadline with an unusual snow this weekend. I have my pump running on an extension cord, but a real heavy duty one. Don't recall the gauge, but I can barely carry the cord it is so heavy. That could be an option until you can get it wired, buy one of those real heavy duty cords.

Most extension cords are made with #14 AWG this is only used for light duty. If you need to use an extension cord read the gauge of the cable inside and it should be #12AWG. This will let you run up to a 20 Amp load (not many pumps draw such high current). The main thing here is to use a GFIC receptacle at the house. Or you can go to Home Depot or any hardware or electrical supply store and buy a cable that is called "super service cable". This comes with a black cover that is weather resistant and depending on local codes you can just dig a small trench for it (Direct Burial). The trench does not need to be too deep as per NEC code with 18" is code compliant. If you just need to run a 120VAC load buy it as a 3-12 so it has three wires inside, one black (live wire), one white (neutral wire) and the ground (green wire). Then install a GFIC receptacle inside a weather proof box (these come with a clear cover so you can keep using it no matter the weather). On one side of the cable you need to install a receptacle plug. The store should have these electrical boxes with everything you need as a kit for about $45-$50 without the cable and the plug. The good thing about doing the installation this way is that if you decide to move the pond you can do it without too much trouble and you don't have to rebuild the electrical infrastructure. This type of installation can be done very quickly but please verify the local electrical code to see if this is acceptable where you live. Also if this installation is in an area where heavy machines and/or cars pass through you will need to go deeper and you will need to encase the wires in PVC tubing and maybe even in concrete (driveways, access roads, etc.). I hope this helps some of you out.

 

[Waterbug]

12/3 has 4 wires, white, black, red, bare. 12/2 is enough for an outlet. Here in the US the most common direct burial wire is clad in grey plastic (no metal sheath).

 

[jneg]

12/3 has 4 wires, white, black, red, bare. 12/2 is enough for an outlet. Here in the US the most common direct burial wire is clad in grey plastic (no metal sheath).

You are right on the cable numbers, sorry for that one, 13-3 is for a 240V outlet. The bad thing about the gray one is that rodents like the gray covering as if it was candy, at least that happens here a lot. The grey one is cheaper as well but I prefer the black one since it has better protection and hides easier.

 

[Catfishnut]

Well, if I move the pond closer to the house..... I need to get out the tape measure and see where I stand with distances.

Mmathis, try these on line calculators:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html

http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

Gordy

 

[milljeenath]

Mmathis, try these on line calculators:

http://www.csgnetwor...resizecalc.html

http://www.csgnetwor...gedropcalc.html

Gordy

Great response! It will be useful for me :razz: Thanks for sharing a lot.

 

[Catfishnut]

Great response! It will be useful for me :razz: Thanks for sharing a lot.

You are most welcome.

Just to add a note on those calculators... When they ask you to enter 1/2 the total circuit length, I believe that they mean for you to consider that your electrical current requires a full, round trip. Meaning from the outlet to the load and back to the outlet. So, if your pond pump is 150 feet from the electrical box or outlet, the total distance is actually 300 feet. Half of 300 feet is 150 feet. So, don't measure the distx to the pump and then cut that in half, the distx to the pump is already the "half" of the circuit that they are asking you to enter.

Gordy

 

[Mmathis]

WOW, thanks for all the great info! Very useful in that I actually understand it (electrical is not my "thing" -- have a very healthy respect for it). Measured the proposed distance and it will be greater than 30', so will have to use extension cording. Have discussed this with hubby -- likes to be kept in the loop -- and he's all for having a new (GFI) circuit installed. Will be using an electrician and will BE SURE codes are followed!

Someone else mentioned having a "whole-house" GFI added. Any idea (ballpark) what something like this runs?

 

[Catfishnut]

WOW, thanks for all the great info! Very useful in that I actually understand it (electrical is not my "thing" -- have a very healthy respect for it). Measured the proposed distance and it will be greater than 30', so will have to use extension cording. Have discussed this with hubby -- likes to be kept in the loop -- and he's all for having a new (GFI) circuit installed. Will be using an electrician and will BE SURE codes are followed!

Someone else mentioned having a "whole-house" GFI added. Any idea (ballpark) what something like this runs?

I don't know how much a whole house GFCI system would be. But, it doesn't hurt to ask five or six local electricians whata they think. Personally, I wouldn't go that far. Just the circuits that are absolutely necessary is what I would concentrated on. That won't be expensive and you don't need to go overboard here. Just be safewith the circuits around water and outside.

Gordy

 

[addy1]

We have 4 gfi's ,the pond throws the bathroom if it trips. As long as your pond is on a gfi you should be fine.

 

[jneg]

GFI circuit are only required in area where water is present, so no "whole-house" GFI is required. For example in bathrooms, another place is in the kitchen if the receptacle is 3' or less to any water source. There are new circuit breakers that go into the electrical circuit panel that are GFI and every receptacle in that circuit will then be considered GFI, these breakers are expensive compared to regular ones but I don't know how much they are going for. If your house uses fuses instead of circuit breakers then just replace the receptacles with GFI in wet locations. I've seen these used to cover bedrooms. For the pond or pool areas would require a GFI.

Regarding the distance to calculate voltage drop Catfishnut is correct. The circuit is considered as the supply and the "return" so normally if you where calculating this value you would multiply the distance by 2 but since you are using a calculator just input the distance from the receptacle to the place where the pond is going to be installed. You are looking for a voltage drop % to be less than 3%. If you calculate and it is higher than 3% then go to the next size gauge wire. Another thing is that wire gauge sizes go from High to Low. For example a #14 is smaller (has less Amp capacity) than a #12. This goes on like this until you go to #1 AWG (very rare to find this gauge). Normally one find gauges in 2 number increments, from 14 to 12 to 10, etc.