EPDM Shortage?! Frogs coming!? EEK!

[DanielleB]

So I went to the local irrigation supply place to order a liner for my 'hole' and was told that there is a nationwide shortage on EPDM? They said the only way they could sell any was in the Aquascape kits. I don't know what to do at this point but I told them to call when they get them in.
So the question is "Has anyone made a temporary liner using a tarp?" For a bit of background I live in the high desert of CO and the local amphibians used my inherited pond hole for breeding. Maybe its silly but I don't want them to be without when they start emerging in a few weeks. I was thinking to just line the bottom of my 'pond' with a tarp and put some rocks to hold it down and so they can escape when they're froglets. Does this sound feasible? I could even hook up a small solar pump for circulation. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

Picture is of the inherited pond last spring. I recently drained it and removed the old liner (billboard)

 

[SarahT]

Hi, welcome to the group. I haven't heard anything about EPDM shortage, so perhaps check some of the online sources (search within this site and there are various discussions about EPDM).
If you are just doing a temporary non-fish/ amphibian pond, I think a decent plastic tarp, perhaps do a double thickness, might last for a few months, even with the CO UV rays. I used one for an emergency in the middle of a Chicago winter (in shade, though) and it was still doing OK in June when I was ready to go one pond size larger (i.e. pond #2).
Good luck.

 

[TheFishGuy]

I have not heard anything about a shortage either. My local pond store has it in stock, and so do almost all places online. Have you thought about going with another recycled billboard?

 

[GBBUDD]

Yes there is a serious shortage on epdm that and pvc are ridiculously scarese and price is climbing. but epdm is in shorter supply than is HPRDE SOME HAVE GOT THAT FROM AMERICA TAPLIA i think they are in washington state . and i have got all my liners these days from justliners.com and they carry both. great company

 

[GBBUDD]

why are you going for a new liner is the existing cracked brittle? was it exposed to the sun for years?

 

[DanielleB]

why are you going for a new liner is the existing cracked brittle? was it exposed to the sun for years?

So the old liner was cracked in places, a few holes rotting through and really not done well, They also used a weed mat which kept the weeds out but was starting to decay and the 'waterfall' was mound of dirt with a few rocks on top and around and a plain old tarp. Everything was done by a previous owner who, though a landscaper, seemed to go the cheapest route without a lot of knowledge on ponds. House was barely maintained either.
I'd really like to build something more permanent with a bog, berm, stream and intake bay. The previous owner took the old solar pump with him, unbeknownst to me. I have another solar pump with battery and figured I could use that till I get power to the site. Thanks GBBUDD; I'll check out justliners.

 

[DanielleB]

I was looking into using Sodium Bentonite but it seems like the water voracious desert plants would degrade the seal within a year. So I'm guessing HDRPE is the way to go at this point. Maybe I should start a build thread.

 

[combatwombat]

I was looking into using Sodium Bentonite but it seems like the water voracious desert plants would degrade the seal within a year. So I'm guessing HDRPE is the way to go at this point. Maybe I should start a build thread.

I was just going to say that the shape/contour of your pond looks like the perfect fit for bentonite clay, but I don't know anything about your climate and it sounds like you have some concerns.

RPE/HDRPE is also an excellent choice. Will be a hell of a lot lighter/easier to install than EPDM. BTL Liners and Everything Ponds have well-regarded RPE liners. American Tilapia sells HDRPE. I and several others have used their liners and find them to be a fine material. Their website looks like it's from 1999, but they do seem to run a tight ship. I've ordered 3 of their liners and all were shipped promptly and received in good condition.

I'm not certain, but I think the "HD" in HDRPE is a marketing thing and, in reality, all RPE liners sold by those 3 companies are technically HD...RPE.

 

[DanielleB]

Thanks so much combatwombat! I'm brainstorming about the liner usage and I was wondering if anyone has made a liner sandwich as a barrier for an intake bay? I can't find anything on the site.

 

[YShahar]

Thanks so much combatwombat! I'm brainstorming about the liner usage and I was wondering if anyone has made a liner sandwich as a barrier for an intake bay? I can't find anything on the site.

I'll be doing something similar for my intake bay, using a "bib liner" that goes under some flat rocks (which will be necessary to form a choke point) and then over the edge of some milk crates. I'm using the 4 milk crates as I can't get aquablocks here.

Here's a sideview of what this will look like:

I've also heard about a shortage of EPDM (and just about every other petroleum-based product). I bought mine from a roofing guy. The only problem is that it comes with a layer of talcum powder on it, which needs to be washed off or it will kill the fish. But it's cost less than half the price of the Pondgard stuff (about $10 / square meter), so the extra effort was worth it.

 

[addy1]

Welcome to the forum!

You will get a lot of good help here.

 

[Lisak1]

Ooohhhh... I have tons of scraps! Maybe this is the year I HIT IT BIG! haha!

Welcome to the forum @DanielleB ! You'll have fun here!

 

[combatwombat]

Thanks so much combatwombat! I'm brainstorming about the liner usage and I was wondering if anyone has made a liner sandwich as a barrier for an intake bay? I can't find anything on the site.
View attachment 149415

I have not done that personally, but I have considered it. Somewhere in the 50 pages of my build thread I have some sketches that look almost the same as yours.

@Lisak1: I almost got rid of my giant pile of lumber pre-covid, then prices took off. Then they came back down. Now they’re back up again.

 

[DanielleB]

@combatwombat did you use an underlayment with your RPE liner? I figure I want some either way for puncture resistance on top with some rocks but wasn't sure about under the liner? If so can you recommend a brand?

 

[combatwombat]

I did. I don’t know the brand though. It was a woven textile that I bought in a 12’ x 450’ roll from a logging supply house. Very heavy duty stuff that loggers use to build their access roads with. Put it over and under the liner.