Fishless cycling of pond

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by Mmathis, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    1. How do you do it? Step-by-step...
    2. What monitoring is involved?
    3. How long does it take?
    4. Where do you find the right kind of ammonia? The bottle I have says it contains "surfactants."
    Pond is 3000-3200 gals. See the thread I just posted for more information:
    "Advice needed...moving fish [GF] out of holding tank and back into the pond"
     
    Mmathis, Jun 5, 2014
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  2. Mmathis

    dieselplower

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    It takes a good month. In a pond that size I'd just use fish if it isn't a high load.
     
    dieselplower, Jun 5, 2014
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  3. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Thanks! Thirty fish.
     
    Mmathis, Jun 5, 2014
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  4. Mmathis

    DoDad

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    Use non sudsing ammonia
     
    DoDad, Jun 5, 2014
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  5. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Where can you find it?

    Or better yet, what would I look for on the label? What we have doesn't say, "non-sudsing," but under ingredients it lists "surfactant."

    I found this, but it says some surfactants can be de-foaming agents OR foaming agents.....grrrr!

    "The surface-active molecule must be partly hydrophilic (water-soluble) and partly lipophilic (soluble inlipids, or oils). It concentrates at the interfaces between bodies or droplets of water and those of oil, or lipids, to act as an emulsifying agent, or foaming agent.

    Other surfactants that are more lipophilic and less hydrophilic may be used as defoaming agents, or as demulsifiers. Certain surfactants are germicides, fungicides, and insecticides."
     
    Mmathis, Jun 5, 2014
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  6. Mmathis

    shakaho

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    I see no reason to go through fishless cycling. Just put four or five fish in the pond. The ammonia they produce in that large pond will be too dilute to measure, but it will get the biobugs growing. If you want to seed the pond with nitrifiers, put in some plants potted in organic soil.

    After a week, if you read no ammonia/nitrite in the pond, add some more fish, and repeat until they are all in the pond. This is by far the least stressful cycling procedure for both you and the fish.

    EDIT: OK, I just read your earlier post. No need to do any cycling. You have a cycled filter, so just set it up with the pond again, and return the fish to their remodeled pond. They will be so happy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
    shakaho, Jun 5, 2014
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  7. Mmathis

    Mucky_Waters

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    I agree with shakaho,,,, except I would check the ammonia, nitrate, and chlorine levels before adding your fish just to be sure. Also I would try and insure the PH and water temperature is as close as can be to the water you are moving your fish from.
    Unless your fish are all very large, it's unlikely they could overload your pond with ammonia quicker than friendly bacteria could establish themselves in your pond and bio-filter. The only reason you would need a fully functioning bio-filter or "cycled pond", would be if you were to put in an immediate heavy fish load (as DP pointed out). If you are putting 30 full grown koi in a 3000 gal pond, I'd say sure, get that pond and bio-filter cycled. But if you are putting in 30 average sized goldfish, don't bother.
    By the way, peeing in your pond would be just as effective as anything in you could buy in a bottle, and it has the added bonus that it's free and adds a very personal touch to your pond.
     
    Mucky_Waters, Jun 5, 2014
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  8. Mmathis

    DoDad

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    Just go to the grocery store and buy the one that doesn't suds, The old fashion type.
     
    DoDad, Jun 5, 2014
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  9. Mmathis

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Maggie, Like Billy said, If your going the route you just want the old fashion ammonia. But after reading your posts I'm with Mucky 100% I'm helping my friend do his pond fishless but we are wanting to cycle the filter, bog, and all, Then move all his fish from his 1500 gallon to his 6000 in one or two moves so we can measure and photograph them during the move over. Then we are converting his 1500 to a Goldfish pond so we can get all his aquariums and preformed ponds empty of goldfish.
     
    fishin4cars, Jun 6, 2014
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  10. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Peeing in the pond -- easier for you than me....
     
    Mmathis, Jun 6, 2014
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  11. Mmathis

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    I've noticed you've already decided to not do a fishless cycling, which is quite fine, but figured I'd throw out this information for anyone that is curious about the procedure.

    The context of fishless cycling applies when the owner want to stock the pond fast with many fish or already have many fish temporarily relocated elsewhere and do not want to wait to transfer them to the pond. When done correctly, this process is significantly faster at preparing a pond/filter to achieve a full nitrification cycle and you will not have to worry about potential ammonia/nitrite spikes once the fish are added to the pond.

    The thread titled, Ok, Now What Do I Do?, would be interesting to ya. Talks about how you can speed up your cycling and other conditions the determine in how long a pond takes to achieve a full cycle. The thread titled, Have a Question Regarding When to Start Adding FIsh? (post#13), talks about how I did my fishless cycle in addition to mentioning and explaining the type of ammonia products to use. Please note the referenced threads are a bit dated; just trying to say some of my methodologies and products I use have changed, but I stand behind the procedures and info shared.

    Irrelevant of the procedure used, the time a pond takes to achieve a full nitrification cycle is entirely dependent on ammonia presence/regeneration, water chemistry, and weather conditions, that is the full cycle can be achieved in 3 days or 2 months or even longer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
    crsublette, Jun 18, 2014
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  12. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    @crsublette Thanks a bunch!

    Yeah, when I Googled it, I found a wide variation in the amt. of time it would take. When I see something that has THAT much wiggle room, I tend to want to stay with what I know -- and that's just putting the fish back in, use my established bio-media, and monitor.

    As it stands now, our temps are rising, and even with my stock tank in a shaded spot, I worry about the fish -- I think they will fare better, overall, in the pond.
     
    Mmathis, Jun 18, 2014
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  13. Mmathis

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Amount of time takes to achieve a full cycle is irrelevant of the chosen methodology since the cycle time is determined by your weather and water chemistry and filter construction.

    You can use established bio-media even with the fishless cycle as well.

    Fishless cycle is ultimately about preparing your pond's ecosystem to be ready to process the ammonia so that you do not experience a spike.

    The amount of ammonia produced by fish is determined by the protein of their food and how much food they eat. If this was a sterile pond or virgin pond or cleaned pond and only what is there to eat for food is what you give them, then there is a simple math formula, which was derived by the aquaculture (fish farming) industry, to determine the amount of ammonia produced by the food, but, if the fish are moving to a pond that has other food sources available such as algae or plants or etc, then guessing the amount of ammonia produced will be a bit tougher. However, even then, there is an assumption that can be made on the protein of algae. So, you can create an educated guess on how much ammonia your pond will experience.

    If you are adding fish slowly, while paying attention to the ammonia, then no worries about any of this. As I mentioned, fishless pond cycling is only done if you wanted to add all of the fish at once.
     
    crsublette, Jun 22, 2014
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