?fungus?

queenpd

queenpd
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We have a 1300 gallon pond and a 120 gallon quarantine tank. We are very new to having Koi and we have had four 1 foot koi die in just over a week and we have had two 4 inch fish die also. We have done everything. When we purchased the bigger koi we quarantined them first and they seemed to be fine for a little while and then we started noticing "fuzz" on them. We did water exchanges and wipe out, restore, prazi....nothing has helped. We took them out of the pond 2 days ago and the few that are left (one big one, 3 little ones) are now in the quarantine tank with our other 6 inch koi. We have added salt and ich treatment yesterday and then today I added methylene blue.
We are baffled and confused as to why nothing has helped and why they are still sick.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP!!!!!
 

queenpd

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can someone also please tell me when do I do a second dose of methylene blue if I do another treatment at all. And do I replace my carbon filter right after I pour in the methylene blue? or do I wait and for how long? My house reeks of fish lol
 

Mmathis

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Hello & welcome! Like your picture (signature/avatar), BTW.

Do you test your water, and what are the results (numbers are most helpful)? How old is your pond, and how many (total) fish do you have & how big are they? And what kind of filtration do you have?
 
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Have you treated for fungus? In my experience, Prazi and ich treatments will not kill fungus. Salt will not kill fungus. However, I am not familiar with the "wipeout" and "restore" products you mention. Like mmathis says, test your water first. Second, read the bottle of methylene blue - does it say it treats fungus? (Sorry, I don't have a bottle to read right now.) Third, do NOT place carbon back into the filtration system until treatment is complete (carbon eliminates chemicals from water). Here's some info on fungus I found that might be useful:

When a fish has this white to off white/gray fuzz growing from spots on its body, this is most likely a fungal infection called Saprolegnia, or a bacterial infection called cotton-wool/Columnaris diseases. It is possible however, that it could also be a colony of Epistyles, which is not a fungus or bacteria, but is a parasite, and is less common than the latter two. Some people say that all of these appear the same on an infected fish, but I tend to disagree. It may be that I feel this way because of my experience, but I feel that there are obvious differences. Under a microscope they are quite easily differentiated, but because this section is primarily dedicated to those of you who don’t have one, I will give you my opinions based on naked eye examination.

As stated above, Saprolegnia (Sap) is a fungus, and once a fish gets infected, it will usually grow much faster than the colony of Epistylis or Columnaris. Sap also prefers colder water, so look for it in the spring and Fall of the year. Saprolegnia appears more hair like, and even in the initial stages grows in a more defined ?bunch?, straight out from the infected area. Epistylis on the other hand, starts differently, as it seems to appear as it is squished out from under a scale of the fish, causes reddening, and spreads sideways first. Epistylis and Columnaris are also much slower in forming the cottony/fuzzy appearance. All of these can develop a green to brown coloration over time, but Sap is usually the quickest to obtain this coloration. This coloration is due to algae forming amongst the fuzz, but Sap is more likely to promote this algal growth in a shorter period. Below is a breakdown of the three different afflictions.

Epistylis

Epistylis is a parasite that is found in dirty water, or ponds that have infrequent water changes, and a buildup of mulm or debris. It forms, as colonies of bell-shaped individuals connected to stem like shafts, and under a microscope, resembles a bush with buds at the ends of each stem or branch. In its initial stages it appears to grow out from under a scale, and spread sideways and over the next scale in line. It will usually infect multiple areas on the fish at one time, and grows flat against the body. The infected area will usually have reddening associated with it as well, and resemble a rash. If left untreated, it will eventually grow outward to form the cottony tufts or fuzz, but it takes quite a while for this to become visible to the naked eye. It can sometimes be killed with a combination of salt treatments at .3% and water changes, but I prefer some of the other listed treatments below. Proform-C or some other malachite/formalin mixture works best. It is also a good idea to do a thorough cleaning of the pond or tank.

Columnaris

Columnaris is also referred to as cotton-wool disease, mouth rot, fin rot, and saddleback, and is a bacterial infection. To the average person it will very closely resemble an Epistylis infestation. When on the body of a fish, both of these afflictions appear to start under a scale, squish out, and spread sideways over the next scale. The first difference that I notice is that a Columnaris infection does not usually show the reddening of the infected area as quickly as Epistylis will. Columnaris will quite often infect the mouth, and it can actually cause it to rot. This is unlikely for Epistylis. Columnaris is also more likely to show fin damage in addition to the areas infected on the body of the fish. Columnaris is one of the few bacteria that can be a primary infestation as compared to most other bacterium that are secondary invaders. Meaning after some other issue like water quality or parasites attack first, then the bacteria move in to take advantage of the weakened state of the fish. You can read more on Columnaris in the treatments section.

Saprolegnia

Saprolegnia is a cold water fungus that is usually a secondary infection that grows on wound of some sort, or wherever the fishes slime coat has been depredated. Ulcers or sores, left untreated, are prime incubators of such an affliction. Also when a fish’s slime coat has been disturbed from things such as handling the fish with dry hands, abrasive nets, or when they jump from or are dropped to the ground, this fungus is likely to appear. It usually starts as a white patch, which quickly forms into the tuffty/fuzzy hair like mass. Because it is a secondary affliction, you will need to address the initial cause for a complete cure, but either way you should treat the area of the growth. Swabbing the area with iodine or Debride medicated ointment can do this. In swabbing, you want to be aggressive enough to eliminate the fuzz, as well as any dead or infected skin tissue. This may need to be done on two separate occasions, but I do not recommend more than this. The area or wound will show signs of healing when the outer edge appears white or pink in color. This is due to the fact that these wounds will heal from the outer edge and work in towards the center. In the case of a fish jumping from the pond or tank and becoming dry, I would highly recommend treating the entire fish with Debride ointment. If you don’t, the fish will take on a "Chia Pet" appearance, and be completely covered by the fungus. If you allow this to get to this stage, it will be nearly impossible to save them.

Even though Epistylis, and Saprolegnia are completely different afflictions, there is one treatment that will simultaneously kill them. That treatment would be, ProForm-C or Quick Cure. The Columnaris however, will be a little trickier, as it is a bacterial infection and will require antibiotics. Due to the fact that you may have difficulty diagnosing which pathogen you are dealing with, you may want to first try the ProForm-C alone. If you do not see healing, then proceed to the listed antibiotic treatment of Tricide-neo. It would also be a good idea to isolate the fish to a tank, as opposed to treating the entire pond, but either way the pond should be thoroughly cleaned, especially if Epistylis and/or Columnaris are suspected.
 

queenpd

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Thank you anitapond for the info. Our last big Koi died last night and this morning one little one. There is one little one left that was from the pond and its not doing well at all, It probably wont last the day. Thats all the koi left from the pond. We have 10 small koi in the aquarium in the house....I'm afraid to put them in the pond. Its funny though the gold fish are out in the pond and their fine.
This is turning out to be a nightmare!! Expensive and frustrating hobby!
My tank water is still blue from the methylene blue I added yesterday. Me and the hubby did a water exchange last night after we found the big koi dead. Like I said were so frustrated and ready to give up!!!!
 

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