Help with a new pond

[SteveITFC]

I love the sound of running water and have a dream of a lovely cascading pond in my front garden.

As you can see from the photos https://www.flickr.com/photos/186636283@N07/?. there are four areas, all roughly 1.8m x 1.5m x 0.3m deep (810 litres each). My vision is for the water to flow through each level and be pumped back up to the top. My wife will be in charge of plants and decor.

The issues currently facing me are :-

- There is no back to the areas at the moment. I was thinking that a brick layer could fix this but would it be strong enough and would it need another layer of brick or concrete blocks on the inside?

- I had planned on lining the bottom with old carpet or equivalent then an EPDM liner, sealing it a few inches above the base with clear Gold Label underwater sealant https://www.clearpond.com.au/produc...ories/clear-gold-label-underwater-sealer290ml, then paint on some clear pond sealer https://www.bunnings.com.au/crommelin-1l-clear-pond-sealer_p0960202 on the inside of the brick and up to the top. My wife does not want the pond liner or rocks to be visible so that rules out bringing the liner to the top.

- How deep and long should the lip be cut out (see terrible sketch) to encourage a lovely flow of water and what type of pump should I be looking at. Would this one suffice? https://www.bunnings.com.au/aquapro-ap7500hm-multi-use-water-pump_p2810102
Are there any other ideas or potential problems I should be looking at?

I appreciate any feedback, positive or negative!

Steve

 

[Lisak1]

Welcome @SteveITFC ! Planning for a new water feature is always so fun!

I don't know if I can answer all (or any!) of your questions, but let me share a few thoughts just from looking at your proposed space.

1. You definitely need something along the back side to provide support - whether you choose brick or concrete block or boulders is up to you. You might even want to continue the cement (I think that's what's currently there) around the fourth side. But attaching liner to anything can be tricky tricky tricky. There's a lot of downward pull on a liner due to the weight of the water. I don't know anything about the sealers you mentioned, but having worked with EPDM myself, I know that getting a flat, tight seal is nearly impossible. Can it be done? Sure. But what happens if you don't get it just right? You'll have lots of folds and creases to deal with and the material isn't really meant for precision. I've seen people accomplish it, but it requires some real skill in cutting and seaming - which you may have, I don't know. If it were me, I would seriously consider a plan that would allow you to wrap the liner up and over the top of the edge. You could then cap it off with a flat landscape stone if it's the formal look you're hoping for. Hiding liner is not hard - there are as many ways to camouflage liner as there are ponds - so don't let that concern you. If you could see any of our ponds before the edge work was done you might think it was hopeless, but it's actually one of the easier parts of the process.

2. Consider the impact of the water being that close to your fence - you will get moisture and it may impact the integrity of your fence. And if you ever need to get to the base of the fence for repairs for any reason, you don't want to have to pull the pond apart to get to it. Give yourself a good margin to work with and pull the feature away from the fence as far as you can.

3. One last thought - I can see why you're choosing this spot, but is this really the best place for your feature? Ideally you should be able to view your water feature from inside your house. Can you see it from your porch or any location inside? Or will your best view be from the bottom of the hill? How often do you imagine yourself going and standing in that spot? You have a fence at the bottom, so it won't be something you can see from the street I'm guessing.

Just some things to think about - probably not what you were asking at all, but maybe others will chime in with their thoughts, too!

Again - welcome to the most fun you'll ever have digging and moving heavy things!

 

[GBBUDD]

I can understand not wanting to see liner. For i would agree myself to my own pond. but there may be easy ways to pull this off. But lets start with structural.
1. Without having the squares connected on all four sides there is obviously a weak link. but are the center dividers burried so far into the ground they will not slip . That maybe but i doubt they are enough to where the wall will not lean down hill stressing out the build of the pond . Also how are the 6x6 timbers connected to each other are they simply but joints and then screwed or nailed ? If so i would get some landscape nails or screws and come in from the back side essentially pinning the sections. against the fence i would unquestionably tie the sections together. you will need to build something to support the water . relying on fence pickets would never be a option in my eyes. You do have a build up with a freeze board to speak at the bottom of the fence some 3/4 ply screwed to the fence would probably hold but if it failed is it flooding out your neighbor? could someone get hurt? To built that up a couple of 4x4's is not a lot of work and then you can use them to secure your panels/ dividers. You could then use 3/4 pressure treated ply to fill in the triangle or dig it out to where the 4x4's fill the angle.
2. you should use underlayment weather it's carpet or non woven and place it against the wood as well as the dirt as it can splinter in time and trust me anyone who has a pressure treated deck will agree it seems to make new splinters daily.
3. If you were to line each of the squares with rubber you could secure it to the top of each of the squares then cap it with some mahogany. it does much better against splintering and the redish color looks so nice . or you could use cedar both can be made wood working wise to cover the top and sides with a joined U shaped piece of wood thus hiding the liner...........

Now unless your heart is set on contemporary look . I'd lean this way i would keep your planters but i would use them as planters in the back ground to add some height . I would then build a pondless or a waterfall and stream that drops into a pond at the bottom of the hill or even half way down . This would be built outside of your planters just infront of it. but building it conventionally and possibly having a negative edge on the down hill side to skim off leaves and such. at the link below look at around 6:00 minutes into the video they get more into the pondless there are over videos at the second link for other ideas and you tube is loaded. But like lisa asked is this the best place to invest in a pond? it look like the back corner of the yard where the neighbors across the street may have a better view then you.

 

[j.w]

@SteveITFC

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our forum!

Are you planning on having fish?

 

[SteveITFC]

Thank you very much for the replies which have made me have a rethink! I will now build up both sides with dirt and rocks and smash through the rendered brick creating a slope and waterfalls with dirt. This way my problems about the liner and fence line disappear. The liner can be hidden by rocks with no concern about leakage.

I am think about having a waterfall near the top and one at the bottom leading into a pond with fish. How wide and deep should the stream be to encourage a strong flow of water?

 

[poconojoe]

I agree with all the great suggestions.

I would stay away from any idea of seaming the liner(s). It's best to remove any chance of leakage completely out of the equation. Believe me, you don't want to deal with some mystery leak after all your hard work.

Your liner should overlap all sides significantly. The more extra liner you have, the better. Never trim any excess. It can easily be folded and hidden under stones, wood, soil or whatever pleases you.

If your liner has no excess, things can occur that would make that a problem. The weight of the water can settle the ground and the liner will be too short. You may also change your mind on the depth or shape of you features. I've done this many times. Most of us are always toying around with shapes, waterfall (size and shape), depths, etc.

You can install one long liner to cover the whole length of all the sections or separate liners for each section. If you choose separate liners, make sure you have enough to overlap the lower liner. Some people run a bead of PL roofing cement underneath to seal between them. Some others just let them overlap.

Enjoy your project. Keep us posted on your progress and please include pictures!

 

[GBBUDD]

bead of PL roofing cement

Careful ROOFING CEMENT in the North East anyways is Asphalt mastic { tar } that never really dries and is definitely not fish friendly. The material i believe you are referring to is Black-Polyurethane-Roof-and-Flashing-Sealant hd can get it but usually its a special order in most stores i have been to. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite...ALTWlQfAFuorhPrEfPRoCatcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Trust me do not use or ask for roofing cement. I will admitt on the outside of my bog i did use 1/8" fiberglass sheeting that had a asphalt coating on it but it will never see water or get anywhere near it. It was used to protect the liner from concrete mafia blocks which have about the worst quality control ever seen.

 

[poconojoe]

Careful ROOFING CEMENT in the North East anyways is Asphalt mastic { tar } that never really dries and is definitely not fish friendly. The material i believe you are referring to is Black-Polyurethane-Roof-and-Flashing-Sealant hd can get it but usually its a special order in most stores i have been to. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite...ALTWlQfAFuorhPrEfPRoCatcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Trust me do not use or ask for roofing cement. I will admitt on the outside of my bog i did use 1/8" fiberglass sheeting that had a asphalt coating on it but it will never see water or get anywhere near it. It was used to protect the liner from concrete mafia blocks which have about the worst quality control ever seen.

I understand and glad you pointed out that asphalt based products may not be appropriate. Good lookin' out!
I somehow remember some members here using something called PL roofing sealant. I looked it up and the PL S30 is in fact polyurethane based.

 

[addy1]

I somehow remember some members here using something called PL roofing sealant. I looked it up and the PL S30 is in fact polyurethane based.

One of my favorite go to sealants. It has held up well where I did use it many years ago. Just wear gloves it is a pita to get off your hands Makes a mess!

 

[poconojoe]

One of my favorite go to sealants. It has held up well where I did use it many years ago. Just wear gloves it is a pita to get off your hands Makes a mess!

Ah! So this old brain of mine remembered correctly. I just couldn't remember who it was that suggested using it. Thanks addy!