(Im)possible Restoration?

[PondGuyFieri]

So I bought a house a few months back and finally got around to restoring (or attempting to restore) this old pond and waterfall the original owner installed. At one point there was another 8x10 pond attached to this beauty. Must have been amazing. Anyway, I guess they wanted to sell the house fast so they cut out half the liner that lined the actual pond, took all the NICE flat stones and threw them in the whole with a bunch of dirt.

How in the heck can I get this thing back to its former glory without spending 10 grand? Here are a few items to note:

1. The liner is cut around the base of the pond, and it is overlapped by the liner from the holding pond above.

2. The filter basin hold water with no problem so I assume no leaks there.

3. I bought a 12x15 liner to make the attempt before even thinking about doing a professional restoration. I ain't rich!

Does anyone here think it's even feasible to lift up what is left of the old liner, tuck the new one nicely up in behind it, and create a new pond area? Obviously I'm worried about leakage, but it seems worth the shot before I shell out $10k.

Thoughts? I can provide more pics if needed, and we can talk pumps and plumbing if/when I can get this thing started.

 

[brokensword]

We're it mine, I'd try and use the new liner. You will have to poke some holes in the old one (so you don't get water trapped between) and figure a way to re-lay the cap stones over top the new liner. I suspect this latter will be the biggest obstacle. If your cap stones are cemented down, that's where the hard work is. If not, it's a matter of shifting them over, placing the new liner, then shifting them back. One note; your liner should be either EPDM poor HDRPE. It should not be pvc.

 

[PondGuyFieri]

here's a better shot of the liner as it exists now. I scrubbed it clean.

The holding pond has some leakage under the cap stones so I started investigating that today.

There is no way I can move the stones without at least a Bobcat. The main stone has to be at least 450 - 500 lbs.

I will update as I move along.

I appreciate the immediate feedback too. Those tips will come in handy.

 

[CometKeith]

Hi and welcome. I’m guessing the top pond was either a waterfall or bog used for filtration or both. It looks like maybe the old owner put lava rock in the top to help create biological filtration? I’m not sure that method would really work. So I would recommend to learn about the nitrogen cycle. All that gunk you washed off if it was algae is actually helpful in reducing the fish wastes into inert substances. It looks like a lot of rocks to move but maybe you could use a lever to lift up some of them to get the new liner under them. I have been ponding over 12 years and always have done things myself. I don’t think you need to spend anything close to the $10,000 you mentioned. My first pond only cost a few hundered dollars and I have a 3000 gallon pond now and it cost me about $3000. See link. https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/my-goldfish-pond.6742/ page 188 Good luck and everyone here is happy to help!

 

[addy1]

Very nice to be pond! Welcome to our forum!

Have a nice bbq and tell all to bring work clothes and healthy male or strong females. Have some crow bars, have your liner, and a lifting competition. Can we crow bar up the rocks, slip the liner under all the free beer and food you can eat!

 

[j.w]

@PondGuyFieri
I'm looking forward to seeing that old pond revamped into a real beauty!

 

[twoheadsbrewing]

I second the idea to use a new 45 mil EPDM liner and repurpose the stones. You never know what condition the existing liner is in, and a new liner will only run a few hundred bucks. Small price to pay for knowing your liner is new and not questionable. The cool thing about doing a rebuild is that the hole is already dug, which is the most difficult part. Looks like a fun project!

 

[PondGuyFieri]

I have a 12x15 Firestone epdm 45 mil liner in my shed for the job.

So the consensus is remove stones, replace liner, reinstall stones. ???

They are foamed in some places and mortared in others. This will take some serious heavy lifting.

The waterfall basin plumbing is intact, I will just need new media, and a good pump. I've had fish tanks for 30 years so I'm pretty good in the filtration and water quality basics.

This will take some time and patience.

Thanks for the input!!

I'll add some detail pics soon.

 

[SarahT]

I keep looking at the pix and thinking it might be possible to tuck the new 45mm EPDM liner up under the biggest rocks, foam and silicone it in place there, and remove/reinstall the more manageable rock. But I don't know how water tight you could get the waterfall over the big stone without liner going under it and there isn't much that's more annoying than finding and fixing a waterfall leak. Aged mortar is often brittle, so isn't as bad as you think to remove, with a crowbar and a sharp whack with a hammer.
"yes" to time and patience and perseverance. It will look great when it's done.

 

[PondGuyFieri]

That was my original thought--to tuck the new liner under the old. Then, along the bottom of the old liner, throw a strip of new liner over the seam and seal it up with some cement or silicone or whatever it is used to join pieces of liner.

I'm reeeeally trying to avoid moving the large rock. I started digging out the upper pond. It's all filled with a few large stones and a whole load of small stones. If I can get all that out and let it dry up, I might be able to reseal the upper pond from leaking below the nice waterfall rock. At the very least it will give me an idea of how those big capstones are being held in place.

The liner does spill out by about 18 inches into the big pond so if it's not torn in the holding pond I might be in business.

We'll see........

 

[SarahT]

I think new liner over the old and tuck and foam and silicone the new liner under the rocks. No matter how careful you are, that many seams between old and new liners at the bottom will likely leak over time. I'd guess you can find 2-3 strong people to lever up the Big Stone (not being under it at the time. Safety first) with a support/ jack underneath and get the liner under it.

 

[GBBUDD]

There is no way I can move the stones without at least a Bobcat. The main stone has to be at least 450 - 500 lbs

There are easy ways to move a 500 pound boulder. Forearm fork trucks is one way they sell these at the depot. or don't lift but slide it out of the way . but be careful not to do more harm then good. A piece of fabric slid under the boulder and have the family step back . this is no place for kids but the fabric will allow for 4 men to grab a corner and make it so each guy has only 125 pounds

 

[CometKeith]

That was my original thought--to tuck the new liner under the old. Then, along the bottom of the old liner, throw a strip of new liner over the seam and seal it up with some cement or silicone or whatever it is used to join pieces of liner.

I'm reeeeally trying to avoid moving the large rock. I started digging out the upper pond. It's all filled with a few large stones and a whole load of small stones. If I can get all that out and let it dry up, I might be able to reseal the upper pond from leaking below the nice waterfall rock. At the very least it will give me an idea of how those big capstones are being held in place.

The liner does spill out by about 18 inches into the big pond so if it's not torn in the holding pond I might be in business.

We'll see........

So pretty much everyone is saying the same thing. Change as much liner as feasibly possible and then test it out to see if there is water loss. If there is liner under the big rock and you can connect to it then you should be fine. If not you will have no choice to move it. With the proper tools and a few people to help it won’t be that hard to move. Just if you invite a few people over for a beer and pizza party to move the rocks maybe hold off on the beer until the big rock is moved in place!

 

[PondGuyFieri]

So now that I'm long settled into my new house, I'm starting to attack this pond restoration again. I just have a quick question...

Is it ok if the upper pond liner leaks a bit into the lower pond? Obviously nothing excessive. Just trying to foam all the leaks as best as I can and I can't seem to get them all.

 

[rubyduby]

Very nice to be pond! Welcome to our forum!

Have a nice bbq and tell all to bring work clothes and healthy male or strong females. Have some crow bars, have your liner, and a lifting competition. Can we crow bar up the rocks, slip the liner under all the free beer and food you can eat!

That is a GREAT idea addy1….