Keeping pond running all winter

[Cdsdave]

Hi all!! My plan is to keep the pond running all winter. Roughly 2000 gal. 2.5 ft deep. I have a bottom drain and skimmer connected to a Jandy valve which then runs to my pump(4000 gal/hr). I can shut off the skimmer but not the bottom drain. I understand that running the pond with the bottom drain could actually cause the water to be colder. This is what I've gathered from reading other posts. I would of thought since warm water rises and cold descends, circulating the water would give the fish warmer temps. We're in zone 7 so our lakes and ponds rarely freeze more than just a coating. If our pond froze over would the ice insulate the water even if its still circulating? Should I look at getting a heater?

I intend on removing my filter,UV, and disconnect the waterfall. I'm not sure if Im going to plumb from the filter connection directly into the pond or by pass the spillway and plumb overtop of it in order to have the water still run down the rocks. My concern is maintaining as close to possible an even water temp or at least not freezing the fish out. In other words have the water run pretty much directly from the pump into the pond or allow it to run down the falls (2ft slopped drop). My thought is to put a ball valve on to restrict the flow down enough to keep the water running and prevent a fast flow which I'm assuming would cause the water to be colder.

Any thoughts or suggestions on maintaining a running pond through the winter would be great!! Thanks everyone!!

 

[dieselplower]

Somewhere around 39 degrees the warmer water becomes heavier which is why do do not want to circulate that water. Does the bottom drain have much suction? The fish won't enjoy that as they are in a more hibernative state.

 

[Cdsdave]

Not sure how to gauge the suction on the drain. This is my first pond so I don't have anything to compare it to. Any ideas on how I can check if it is too strong and if it is what can safely be done to reduce it? Thanks!!

I just feel the water quality and gas exchange would be better if I kept it flowing. Like I said this is my first pond so I'm basically going on what I've read and gut instinct.

 

[Tula]

I don't have a bottom drain, but if I did, I'd be concerned about running it in the winter. My fish huddle in the deepest area of my pond, barely moving when very cold. I live in Cincinnati. If I was going to run any water through my pond in the winter, I'd run it through my skimmer filter and directly into the pond ( no splash) off my smaller pump. I've toyed with this idea, but am not going to tamper with success, so will use pond deicer and air stones 10 inches into the water and do small water changes on warmer winter days.

I'll be interested in what you do....always trying to learn Kim

 

[crsublette]

Hi all!! My plan is to keep the pond running all winter. Roughly 2000 gal. 2.5 ft deep. I have a bottom drain and skimmer connected to a Jandy valve which then runs to my pump(4000 gal/hr). I can shut off the skimmer but not the bottom drain. I understand that running the pond with the bottom drain could actually cause the water to be colder. This is what I've gathered from reading other posts. I would of thought since warm water rises and cold descends, circulating the water would give the fish warmer temps. We're in zone 7 so our lakes and ponds rarely freeze more than just a coating. If our pond froze over would the ice insulate the water even if its still circulating? Should I look at getting a heater?

I intend on removing my filter,UV, and disconnect the waterfall. I'm not sure if Im going to plumb from the filter connection directly into the pond or by pass the spillway and plumb overtop of it in order to have the water still run down the rocks. My concern is maintaining as close to possible an even water temp or at least not freezing the fish out. In other words have the water run pretty much directly from the pump into the pond or allow it to run down the falls (2ft slopped drop). My thought is to put a ball valve on to restrict the flow down enough to keep the water running and prevent a fast flow which I'm assuming would cause the water to be colder.

Any thoughts or suggestions on maintaining a running pond through the winter would be great!! Thanks everyone!!

Yeah, I am in the same zone as you as well, that is 6b-7a.

Also, my pond is extremely shallow. 15" deep at best. So, you will likely do better than I in regards to ice build up since your pond's depth gives your water better insulation.

My first winter I actually kept my fountain and stream running, but definitely turned off the waterfall. Also, my stream is built wide enough, with just smooth river rock, so there is no concern of ice damming causing your pond to empty. You do have to make sure ice damming will not accidentally empty your pond. My fountain is in the middle of the pond on an island.

Also, the fish were all at the bottom and hiding inside a plastic structure, that is what supports my fountain island.


Here is my experience...

I had no concerns at all during the days where the hi-temps were 34*F~40*F, even if it was only for 4 hours or so. This was long enough to melt any significant ice build up.

You will see a good amount of ice build over your pond by morning when the over night low-temps reach around the 20*F~25*F range for a few hours.

Once the high temps were in the 20*F~25*F range, then the pond definitely froze over, except for a 2 foot diameter circle around my heater.

When the high temps were in the 10*F~15*F range and low temps were -5*F~5*F, then there was serious ice buildup. I once had my electricity go out due to ice on the power lines and, after one night, my pond froze over and there was about 4~6 inches of ice over my pond. Fortunately, a couple days later, the high temps jumped to around 38*F and the ice thawed well enough that I could open a hole with my pond heater.

I was really concerned when we had a bad arctic front come in. High temps were 5*F~10*F and low temps -2*F and wind child was -10*F. I still had my fountain and stream running. The ice sculptures it made was awesome, but I never had any ice damming. Fortunately, the high temps returned to the 25*F~30*F range, some of the ice melted, and everything was good.

Scary part is when the electricity goes out for a night or two...


Here is what I have done...

Be sure you insulate all of your piping that is exposed to the weather or is very shallow. In case the electricity goes off, then your pipes will freeze up fast if they are not insulated, but, as long as the water is flowing, the exposed pipes never did freeze on me. The problems are created whenever the electricity goes out.

There are winterizing kits for frost free spigots and these kits has a heat trace line that is wrap in insulation and this insulation wraps around the exposed frost free spigot pipe. You could look into using a heat trace line insulation to wrap your exposed pipes.

Definitely look into getting a floating pond heater. I found a 1500 watt works incredibly well. It is overkill, but, when it comes to freezing temps, I like overkill on my heaters for my pond. Also, be sure it has an auto-sensing temperature on/off swtich; if not, then you can buy ones that attach to your plug-in, but make sure it can handle your heater's ampage.

I put the floating heater near where my stream enters the pond. Actually, it is placed so the stream flows over the floating pond heater.

I also keep my fountains running. This was never a concern, even when the low-temps went down to -5*F, but I am concerned when the hi-temps stay in the 10*F~15*F range, in regards to my fountain.

 

[JohnHuff]

Handsome Charles, should I put a plastic container at the bottom of the pond? I fished one out while vacuuming one year. It was only later that it occurred to me that the fish could have wintered in there, but I don't know if thin plastic does anything for insulation.

 

[Dave 54]

We run a koi pond a modest 1,000 imperial gallon 4ft deep pond , in its construction phase we decided to lagg everything there possibly ti lag our pond is free standing and it is surrounded by 22 mm polystyreene sheeting and silver sised bubble wrap which in turn is lagged by recycle plastc loft indulation this is then in yturn surrounded with decking .
All the pipes are lagged in the same loft insulation.
Our three 32" and one barrel bio filter are insyulated by a housing made from decking and is again insulated with 22 mm Polystyreene sheeting .
We have a Polycarbonate cover for the pond and the lid of the filterhousing is covered by quadruple thickness Polycarbonate sheets to form hatches to the filters for ease ff access during cleaning .
At this moment night time temperatures are hitting between 7c to 8c but with everything in place the pond hovers between 15c to 16c .
This is before we get into heavy winter when we warm the air around the filters and get a pond temperature of between 11c to 12c .
Their feed is reduced at this time to one meal a day.

rgrds

Dave

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I live in Canada, and have a much colder climate than you, ice 7-8" thick for 3 months solid is normal.
My last pond that was only 3 ft deep I turned off the waterfall, but circulated the water with a pump all winter, and attempted to keep a hole in the ice by directing the circulating water up to the surface. This flowing water kept a hole open most of the winter except when it got really cold and the hole developed an ice dome that froze over. Did this every winter for many years, never lost a fish, frog or turtle.
I have a larger pond now that is 5 ft deep and has a bottom drain. Last winter was the first winter for this pond with fish and critters in it, I turned off all the pumps and didn't circulate the water at all, the water stayed warmer at the bottom of the pond, but I had the first winter pond deaths I have ever had. Lost a few fish, a turtle and a frog.
I believe it is more important to circulate and oxygenate the water than it is to try and keep it a couple degrees warmer. It is true that circulating the water will cool it a little more, especially the water near the bottom of the pond, but warmer oxygen depleted water will kill fish faster than cooler oxygen rich water.
I will be circulating my water all winter this year.

 

[JohnHuff]

I believe it is more important to circulate and oxygenate the water than it is to try and keep it a couple degrees warmer. It is true that circulating the water will cool it a little more, especially the water near the bottom of the pond, but warmer oxygen depleted water will kill fish faster than cooler oxygen rich water.
I will be circulating my water all winter this year.

In that case, how about adding a little air pump? Will it freeze? The water just looks so terribly cold to me when it circulates.

 

[addy1]

I pull my external pump, stuff a bunch of bubble wrap in the skimmer to displace the water. Set up the aerator with a line in each pond that has significant fish load, the big pond, the lotus tank, and now the shubbie tank. In the big pond the aerator is around 20 feet from the deep end, the water in the deep end stayed around 37 all winter, the pond did not freeze over. The fishless ponds froze down around 7 inches. No fish loss yet over winter.

 

[DrCase]

I'm in zone 7 also, I run my pumps all winter unless it gets really cold.
I never worried about a heater,for the few ice days

Can you put a plug in your bottom drain ? Or put a big bowl over it to slow it way down

 

[Phil]

I'm near you just north of Philadelphia, and last winter was the first for my ponds. I don't have a bottom drain, just a skimmer which feeds an Aquafalls water fall. This falls has about an 8" drop into a small pond with a maximum depth of about 8". The small pond empties into a 6' stream that goes over another falls, about 10", into my main pond which is 30" deep at the deepest and about 1600 gallons. I kept the skimmer running all winter last year and also added two air stones. There was often some skim ice and twice both falls and the stream froze completely over for a day or two but the water kept running underneath. I never had any issues with water loss. In the big pond I had 6 adult pumpkinseeds, a native sunfish, I caught in a local stream. They had spawned and a few of the babies went through the skimmer and the bio-falls into the upper pond, so I had some babies in both ponds. All the adults survived, as did many of the babies although there were too many to count so I probably had some mortality there. But there are still 3 babies, now a little over a year old, living in that shallow upper pond. They seem to have no interest in moving down stream and are growing nicely so I'm not going to move them but I wonder if they will survive this winter. I agree with Mucky that it is more important to circulate the water than it is to keep it warmer. I'm no biologist but it doesn't seem to me that there can be that much difference in the fishes health or metabolism between 35 degrees and 38 degrees. I plan on keeping my pond running all winter again this year.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

In that case, how about adding a little air pump? Will it freeze? The water just looks so terribly cold to me when it circulates.

I've considered an air pump, and I thin for some it might be the way to go. Probably last winter I wouldn't have lost any fish had I used one, but letting the pond just sit all winter was a sort of experiment for me as I had never done that before and wanted to see just what would happen. I had a low fish (critter) load, and a relatively deep pond (5 ft), and I cleaned the pond out pretty good. The problem however was the algae continued to grow over the late fall and through the winter (even under the ice), and then it started to decompose, and when the ice started to break up in the winter, which it started to do on one side first that is in the sun, the moment the water was exposed and I could access it I noticed it had a light H2S smell to it and it was quite cloudy. Also, when I opened the gate valve on the bottom drain the smell just about knocked me over, all the fermenting water and algae had been sitting in the bottom drain line in an oxygen free environment, just the perfect condition for H2S to form.
Not this winter, I have an alternate plan. I have already redone some of my pluming, and when I shut down the water fall the water circulation will go through the bottom drain, into my indoor vortex settling tank, but instead of proceeding to the other tanks and back to the waterfall, I have an old Laguna pre-filter in the vortex tank and have that plumbed to one of my external pumps (also located in the pump room) and will pump that through my UV unit and back through my skimmer line in a reverse flow direction. My simmer is removed and the water flows back into the pond at about mid level on the far side of the pump. This new configuration is already running, all I have to do to complete the plan for winter is turn off the waterfall pump, close the knife valve to isolate the settling tank from the other tanks, and drain the other tanks.
What all this will basically do is circulate the pond water into my insulated pump room through my vortex tank. Then my vortex tank will be my hole in the ice for gas exchange allowing the water to breath, the pond to freeze over normally, but at any time I'll be able to walk into the pump room and access the water for testing. The pump doing the water circulation is not as powerful as the waterfall pump, so the bottom drain will not have as much "suction" as it normally does, hopefully I won't get too many fish or frogs going through, but if they do, they will just end up in the vortex tank, and there's no reason why they won't be able to survive in there.
Anyway, that's my plan for winter. :cheerful:

 

[dieselplower]

I turned off all the pumps and didn't circulate the water at all, the water stayed warmer at the bottom of the pond, but I had the first winter pond deaths I have ever had. Lost a few fish, a turtle and a frog.

I do think there are a number of ways to successfully "Winter" a pond. I find all of them very interesting. I have no idea which is best or proper. One thing I am wondering about this particular method where you had some fish and other loses, is, did you do anything to keep a hole open in the ice?

I turn off my 1300 gph pump which is near the bottom of the pond and run only a 300 gph pump, which will be on my 2' deep shelf. That is the shallowest part of my pond after I did a "remodel". This pump shoots the water up out a tube with a fountain attachment at the end. However, for Winter, I remove the fountain attachment so that it just shoots a mass of water up at the surface, sort of creating a 4" high "bulge" of water at the surface. This kept a hole open in my pond all Winter. The reason I put it on the shallow shelf is to leave the water towards the bottom mostly undisturbed, and, to get a good amount of surface agitation. I believe this helps vent off gases and also adds oxygen to the pond.

 

[Sunshine]

I'm in zone 5. All I do is clean out the bio filter and do a water change before winter. The bio and bog stay running. Our winters are a hit and miss these past few years. Some severe, some mild. This has worked for me. No fish loss. The ice forms over the falls but the water stays running under it.