Major Underlayment Fail - Any Suggestions?

[nathanCFD]

Well, we put down two layers of Aquascape Underlayment for the pond. And, then it rained. Not normal rain but "wrath of God" rain. It undermined the walls of the pond, washed dirt into the pond. Rumpled up our underlayment. And now, three days later, it still feels like pudding under the middle of the pond. And, some of the shelf walls have "melted". Do we need to take the underlayment off and let it dry out, repair the walls, etc? Or, just put the liner on top and keep moving forward? Any suggestions?

 

[Mmathis]

Ouch! I feel your pain. Something similar happened to us (similar but different).

Where do you live and what kind of soil do you have to work with? Your soil consistency may be the biggest factor to consider.

Now, this is just my experience (which I won’t go into), but personally, I would pull the underpayment back and give the “foundation” a little time to dry and firm up a little. We have heavy clay soil. There is a Goldilocks zone where it is just the right consistency to work with — not too dry, not too wet. If it was me (and it has been), I would try to reshape and tamp down as much as you can to get your shelves back the way you want them. Once the liner goes in and the pond fills, the pressure of the water will help sort of hold things in place. But if you leave it the way it is, you will never be happy with it later. It’s ALWAYS a PITA to have to rework a pond, but better to do it now than 2 years from now when you will be trying to keep you fish and plants happy while you have to do emergency repairs because your plants or rocks keep sliding into the pond on wonky shelves.

Again, just my opinion. Let’s wait and see what others have to contribute.

 

[AlyssaFish]

I agree with Mmathis. If you're not able to use the pond shelves for what you were hoping to use them for (to hold plants and rocks, presumably) then it would would be worth it to fix the shelves. If you don't, you'll end up either having to fix it later, or to come up with creative solutions to compensate.

I do not have any natural shelves in my pond in order to save on liner and irritate the local raccoon population because I'm troll like that. Instead of using natural pond shelves to place pants, I have to make artificial shelves using PVC to make a frame, and a flat rock placed over it. Then I can stick my plant on that. It's more work, more expensive, and not as structurally sound as putting the plants directly on the pond floor. The only real benefit is that it conserves space and my fish can use them as caves.

 

[addy1]

Or, just put the liner on top and keep moving forward? Any suggestions?

Me I would just move forward, but that is me. I would not worry that much about the shelves, most of my plants sit on the bottom of the pond, I do have one shelf the bog wall, have a few potted plants there.

 

[nathanCFD]

We have heavy clay soil.

Yes, that's me - TN red clay! The shelf's are actually fine - just one in the corner has "slumped" a little. They are 95% okay; it's the fact that the center is so wet, I was worried about it. And, I've walked around in there inspecting so I've "smooched" the bottom out. It's long longer flat and level.

 

[nathanCFD]

I agree with Mmathis. If you're not able to use the pond shelves for what you were hoping to use them for (to hold plants and rocks, presumably) then it would would be worth it to fix the shelves. If you don't, you'll end up either having to fix it later, or to come up with creative solutions to compensate.

Actually, I'm a total noob; I did pond shelfs because I read that if you do it that way then it takes less rock. I have no plans for plants. The only thing I'm have planned is to put a giant 6 foot piece of flagstone across one corner to make a fish-hiding-spot

 

[Lisak1]

There's a good lesson here for future new pond builders - don't stop at underlayment. Get the liner in just in case it rains.

I think I'd pull the underlayment out and let things dry out before proceeding. I hate do-overs, but a do-over now is much easier than a do-over later. I don't know what might have happened under there, but I'd want to make sure all was good before proceeding. It seems like this might be a bit of a personality thing, so we'll see where you fall on the scale!

 

[nathanCFD]

There's a good lesson here for future new pond builders - don't stop at underlayment. Get the liner in just in case it rains.

Yes, that's true - but, OMG - we had been at it for 10 hours, and the sun was bearing down on that hot underlayment and when 6:00 came, I had to call it quits. I had no idea how long it was going to take to put that down.

But, yes, HUGE mistake.

 

[Lisak1]

Oh have we all been there! We laid our pond liner in JULY when it was 104 degrees! It was so hot we couldn't even touch it with bare hands. So I feel you on that one!

 

[IPA]

Actually, I'm a total noob; I did pond shelfs because I read that if you do it that way then it takes less rock. I have no plans for plants. The only thing I'm have planned is to put a giant 6 foot piece of flagstone across one corner to make a fish-hiding-spot

Good luck sorting through this. If @addy1 said just move on then +1. Now we may want to talk to you about the no plant plan though

 

[nathanCFD]

Now we may want to talk to you about the no plant plan though

Oh, I kill every plant I get near! I have just given up! I'd love some house plants but it's just not fair to the plant

 

[AlyssaFish]

Oh, I kill every plant I get near! I have just given up! I'd love some house plants but it's just not fair to the plant

That's what makes pond plants so great. You can't really mess up with them the way you can with house plants. No need to worry about how much water to give them because once they're planted in the correct spot, the watering takes care of itself.

 

[JamieB]

I have a history of black thumb too, but you will want pond plants. The plant and ignore kind.
Water lillies: plant where they will get lots of sun, in the biggest container you can, a long shallow wide container filled with pure clay no additives cat litter, the cheap stuff. If your water doesn’t leave rust colored stains, you might add a bit of steel wool or something to it, there’s threads of advice on here. And just in case, find a way to cover the top with fish proof wire like chicken wire, for later on.
Submerged plants: there are threads on them. In addition to pulling waste from the water, they help oxygenate it.
Cattails, rushes, other marginals: they will grow well in pots on the shelves, just barely cover the pots in water. Some iris can grow like that, others may need to be just above water line, but roots stay wet.
Plants use fish waste to grow, thus helping keep water safe for fish, reducing need for water changes, and reduce the algae. Otherwise you’ll be on here in no time trying to figure out how to clear the pea soup water.

 

[poconojoe]

Agree, plants are an essential part of your pond's ecosystem. Your pond will be out of balance without them. Your pond and fish absolutely need them, and lots of them. If you don't have plants you will end up with green water because algae (plants) will thrive.

I will however disagree with using pots for the plants. Pots are too restrictive for both the spreading of the roots and the root's access to the nutrient rich water.
Your better off either using mesh planter bags or creating pockets on your shelves with rocks to set the plants in. You can buy the mesh bags or make them. The ones I bought have a drawstring on the top to help contain the growing medium. They are porous so the nutrient rich water can reach the roots.

 

[nathanCFD]

Sorry for not responding for awhile, had another project had to get out; tough week. Anyhow. I ended up pulling back the underlayment and repacking any portion of the shelf that slumped too bad. I could also feel more gravel under there too, so I put a third layer or underlayment on the very bottom. We put down the liner and rocked it. The flagstone shelf is a "fish cave". Going to work on the waterfall next weekend (hopefully)

If anyone sees anything weird or bad, let me know.

And, I'll take your plant advice to heart.