Multiple questions

[LuapYllier]

Hello all,
Been a while since I posted. My pond has been up for a while now and I have a couple questions.

Water quality...My Amonia level has never been zero but has never gone over the .25ppm on the color chart. I have never registered any Nitrite or Nitrate. PH has remained at a steady 8.2. I have tried adding bacteria and have tried just waiting for it to naturally happen. Is any of this really a problem? The fish seem to be quite content with the situation.

Fish Fry...I had no intention on doing any sort of breeding and do not have any sort of separation tank available. We have spotted a couple of goldfish fry hidding among some of the larger rocks piled at the fountain area. My question is can they survive on their own off algae and maybe small leftover flakes of fish food? or is it necessary for me to go get fry specific food? we first spotted one I think about 2 weeks ago.

Thanks.
Mike.

 

[sissy]

they will survive off what is in the pond if the other fish do not eat them first .As long as everything stays stable you are fine .I use quilt batting in a crate on top of my filter .Zeolite helps with ammonia and crushed oyster shells keep PH stable .crushed oyster shells are used to make chicken eggs a little harder and help them digest better

 

[Stephen Noble]

Hi Mike,
Ammonia level ideally is zero. What are your readings? Your zero nitrite is excellent but I always question a zero nitrate level. What type of test kits are you using? Also, check the expiration dates on the test kits. I would also take a water sample to get tested.

 

[LuapYllier]

they will survive off what is in the pond if the other fish do not eat them first .As long as everything stays stable you are fine .I use quilt batting in a crate on top of my filter .Zeolite helps with ammonia and crushed oyster shells keep PH stable .crushed oyster shells are used to make chicken eggs a little harder and help them digest better

Yeah we do not know when they were born or how many there were but it seems life finds a way and at least a couple have found haven in the rocks the bigger fish cant get to. The PH has been completely stable at 8.2 since I started the pond...even through water changes.
And I don't believe the ammonia is at a level that i need to do anything about yet. Thanks for the comments.

 

[LuapYllier]

Hi Mike,
Ammonia level ideally is zero. What are your readings? Your zero nitrite is excellent but I always question a zero nitrate level. What type of test kits are you using? Also, check the expiration dates on the test kits. I would also take a water sample to get tested.

Yes ideal is zero but less that .5 is acceptable. My concerns lie in why I have never gotten any sort of beneficial bacterial activity. I do use a UV light on one of the 2 pumps to try to help keep algae down and I know that can also kill bacteria...but that system is no where near my filter pump and filter which should have developed bacterial communities by now. The lack of nitrates/nitrites tells me I have none.

 

[cas]

Regarding ammonia - it becomes a problem in combination with water temp and pH levels. This chart is on koiphen.com. You can enter any ammonia amount. I put in .25

 

[LuapYllier]

Regarding ammonia - it becomes a problem in combination with water temp and pH levels. This chart is on koiphen.com. You can enter any ammonia amount. I put in .25


View attachment 127886

Cas that is a nice chart. I had no idea the toxicity was tied to temperature and PH like that...however, those numbers are tiny...much smaller than what I can get from a color card on the API master kit. Unless your point is to say if I am seeing it on the color the it is too much.
I got differing information from some other sources.

 

[cas]

If I understand what you said, your pH is 8.2 and ammonia is .25. Looking at that chart, it doesn't look like it is a problem until your water temp is 76 degrees. Hopefully by that time your good bacteria has established itself and will take care of the ammonia.

 

[LuapYllier]

If I understand what you said, your pH is 8.2 and ammonia is .25. Looking at that chart, it doesn't look like it is a problem until your water temp is 76 degrees. Hopefully by that time your good bacteria has established itself and will take care of the ammonia.

Well it has been almost a year now and no signs of bacteria doing anything.

 

[cas]

Well it has been almost a year now and no signs of bacteria doing anything.

Do you have a biofilter?

 

[LuapYllier]

Do you have a biofilter?

It turns out not to be an ideal biofilter because I found out later after building it that they work better when water is falling onto the media or something like that but in theory, yes, I have a large section of lava rocks and a layer of bio rings in my filter as well as layers of green scrubbing pads and pot scrubbing sponges. The water pushes up from the bottom through the layers of media and then gravity out a pipe at the top.

 

[cas]

My biofilter is the same as yours - water comes up the bottom and out the top.

I am not an expert, but what I did learn from someone who was an expert (Meyer Jordan who use to post a lot on this site), is that you need enough surface area for the bacteria to grow. Good bacteria grows on all surfaces of the pond in addition to the biofilter. I changed out my media in my biofilter to get more SSA, specific surface area, because I was having a problem with ammonia also.

1 SSA (specific surface area) will convert 1 mg of ammonia per day. The size of the fish determine the amount of ammonia that is produced. If you go to https://russellwatergardens.com/pages/koi-length-and-weight there is a chart that tells how much ammonia is produced per size of fish. Then you calculate the surface area of your pond. You need more SSA than the ammonia that is produced by the fish.

I hope this makes sense. The link above gives more information about it.

 

[LuapYllier]

It does make sense. I have I believe 3 bags of lava rocks which are supposed to be full of little tiny holes and places perfect for microorganisms and then the bio rings are designed specifically for the purpose and I have about 30lbs of those. Even the green pads and scrubbies were picked for the surface exposure. The filter itself is 35 gallons in a trash can and the pond is only 300 gallons. It should be overkill on all departments. I have only been cleaning the pads and scrubbies every 3 months or so and even then they dont seem to really need it.

The only thing I can come up with that might be counteracting the process is A) the UV light, or B) the fact that I refill with chlorinated water. Any time I do a large water change I counteract the chlorine with the usual chemical treatments but it is also set to auto refill as the water evaporates or whatnot. Relative to the water body that is very minor and should dissipate pretty fast.

 

[cas]

With 300 gallons, maybe you have too many fish for the biofilter to work?
I have been catching fish to give away each year because I am really close to being overstocked. But every time I get rid of some, babies still make it and each year the number of fish is increasing instead of decreasing!