My Koi Addiction....


Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Thank you!
I know you lean more towards the "show" kind of koi , but I remember how much you loved your Lemon Hariwake, would you buy another "ornamental" koi?
Hi Gemma. You are totally right. I loved how the metallic scales of my Yellow Hariwake made it so fun to watch it in my pond. I have been enjoying learning about the Gosanke Koi and how to distinguish more valuable and beautiful ones from others. It seems like a real art to know how they will develop and it really interests me how breeders are so good at identifying young fish that have the potential to be really beautiful. I think there is almost an endless amount to learn about that so that is why I fell into liking the sanke, showa, and kohaku. Other Koi are also nice but I think not as much to learn about. Pondwise probably the shiny ones like your GinRin Ochiba will be a lot more fun to watch. I'm curious and sorry if you already posted this what made you decide to pick the fish that you did? I know you have been talking about finding a Ki Utsuri and I know you mentioned liking the Kujakus before, but what made you pic the Matsuba, Ochiba, and Benigoy? Also why did you lean more toward the butterfly Koi?
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Aww so I picked the right one!
Isn't it crazy that one is worth 12 times the other one!
By the way, I'm going to Oregon next week for a short family vacation. I have never been there and am looking forward to it :) We are going to Mount Hood, Portland and the North Coast.
 
Ad

Advertisements

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
34,457
Reaction score
19,321
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
Have fun! I was in Oregon many many years ago, did a camping trip out of my datsun station wagon. Beautiful beaches, parks etc.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
I'm curious and sorry if you already posted this what made you decide to pick the fish that you did? I know you have been talking about finding a Ki Utsuri and I know you mentioned liking the Kujakus before, but what made you pic the Matsuba, Ochiba, and Benigoy? Also why did you lean more toward the butterfly Koi?
In the beginning (almost 17yrs) I was only aware of "pond grade" koi and totally loved the Ogon family because they were the first and only Metallic I had seen, but had no idea they had a specific name and so back then I was at the mercy of whatever kind of koi pet store carried....in 2016 when I had my pond enlarged, I started researching and learned koi can be purchased online, after visiting NDK site it became my goal to own one of each of my favorite.
Up until that day, every Spring I had exchanged large fish and all known females, for new babies so I had the room to start building my collection, and so I made a list of koi I was out to find. After I learned that most Bekko in people's pond were once Sanke just like mine, I decided to stay away from the show koi and bought one by one all the fish on my list with the exception of these last 5 that I didn't have the room for once I stopped relocating females.
Fortunately my 3 large Matsuba and my two Shubbies were (are) male so that's why I have 9-12yr old fish in there, but the rest of them are all 2yr old or under even if they look older due to size.

I think Showa are beautiful but like the the Goshiki that is still on my list (and I almost bought recently) I don't know if it would turn on me like the Sanke did.

So to sum it all up, I buy the fish a buy, to have a school of very distinct and unique looking fish that are brightly colored.

The Butterfly Hi Utsuri was only added to the list this year, after I saw a large one at a koi show ....so beautiful!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
I know you have been talking about finding a Ki Utsuri and I know you mentioned liking the Kujakus before, but what made you pic the Matsuba, Ochiba, and Benigoy? Also why did you lean more toward the butterfly Koi?
Matsuba: This I chose because of the color Sapphire Blue

GinRin Ochba S., because I wanted a Chagoi out of curiosity but the solid color was not appealing to me so I kept an eye on the Ochiba for sale until I found this one...I've never seen a 7-8" fish this chubby, I' thinking it could be a girl

Benigoi: I fell in love with the one in a youtube video, I hope it has white tips (Aka Muji) like that one.

Why Butterfly: I actually like a mix of standard and butterfly fins in my pond, I think some koi look better with standard fins and some with butterfly fins so depending on the fish I chose what fins I want it to have, for example my Aka Matsuba and my kikusui would not look as good in a butterfly form.
I also recently discovered that I don't like the GinRin on Metallic fish
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Time to revive this thread.....Anyone looking to buy fish this year?
118431
Any kind in particular?
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Hi Gemma. You shouldn't have asked!! I'm addicted to looking at fish to buy. I look constantly.... maybe 1-2 hours a day!?! I think there are some good buys now, but I'm not thrilled about throwing them into frigid water. I have tried to research if it is really bad to put a fish into cold water and haven't come up with much. The one thing I have learned is the reason Japanese Koi live so long is they go through the natural state of winter in Japan where it gets very cold rather than some fish farms where they keep the Koi in warm water and overfeed and push growth 24/7. That said I still don't want to overly shock any fish coming from Sunny California, Hawaii or one of the warm southern states so I'm not sure how well any of those fish would adjust coming to Chicago in the winter. I have also looked at boarding. Some places will hold and store your fish until a certain date. Most typical is over the summer and sending you the fish in the fall, but I'm not interested in that. Kodama Koi had a really interesting program not too long ago. They were selling very high quality small Koi in the size range of 5.5-6 inches and would ship them to you in the spring when they were estimated to be about 13-14 inches. They expected the value of the fish to multiply by about 4 times in that time period ie $300 to $1200 but obviously couldn't guaranty it. I thought it was really interesting, but couldn't bring myself to spend that much on that size Koi even if they are worth $1000+ at the time they are shipped. I'm starting to look at upgrading my filter system and am pricing bead filter systems so that is keeping me busy lately, but still keep checking new fish as they come on the market. The main places I'm following are Kodama in Hawaii, Champion Koi in CA and Grand Koi in Georgia. Oh I should mention I'm going to Vietnam in the spring. I already have researched Koi dealers in Hanoi and HCMC (Saigon) in case it made sense to buy Koi there and found a good Koi dealer in HCMC. Just to show how addicted I am as I looked at Asia sources for Koi I stumbled onto a great source of Koi from Japan that will ship their fish here. The fish were much much cheaper than what they are sold for here. A small box of 60 Koi would cost about $1800 to ship. The savings would be maybe 75% over what they sell for here. Now I just need to decide what I could do with 60 Koi!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Hello @CometKeith AKA koi addict
118441


After reading your post I guess I shouldn't complain about my addiction, I'm satisfied just talking about koi and looking at videos/pics, don't need to keep buying. I would if I wasn't afraid of over stocking....I wanna be strong about this, like @Tula I think I still have room for a few but I'm saving that in case I happen to have an accidental fry I can't part with. ...or I see one for sale I just have to have...oh man! I suck at this!
118442


Vietnam huh, wow! You really like to travel! Me, not so much, but I'm planning on being very brave some day,when the kids have moved out, and make it to the Aquascape pond tour in Chicago!

Question for you: What do I look for, to be able to tell apart a Doitsu Kujaku from a Kin Kikokuryu?
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Hello @CometKeith AKA koi addict View attachment 118441

After reading your post I guess I shouldn't complain about my addiction, I'm satisfied just talking about koi and looking at videos/pics, don't need to keep buying. I would if I wasn't afraid of over stocking....I wanna be strong about this, like @Tula I think I still have room for a few but I'm saving that in case I happen to have an accidental fry I can't part with. ...or I see one for sale I just have to have...oh man! I suck at this!View attachment 118442

Vietnam huh, wow! You really like to travel! Me, not so much, but I'm planning on being very brave some day,when the kids have moved out, and make it to the Aquascape pond tour in Chicago!

Question for you: What do I look for, to be able to tell apart a Doitsu Kujaku from a Kin Kikokuryu?
Hi Gemma. I have been mostly learning about Showa and Sanke. There is so much to know about them it's crazy. Also of course Kohaku are very nice too as they round out the big three. So obviously anything Doitsu are scaleless. I have been interested in Doitsu Sanke as they are some of the most beautiful Sanke and have unique colors. Kujaku have a blue undertone. On a sad note when I lost my Kujaku last winter part of it was disintegrated. It had the brightest blue layer of skin under the outer skin I ever saw. I couldn't believe it was a natural color. Kikokuryu are known for their color change and are really Doitsu Kumonryu. Whatever you get it doesn't necessarily stay that way and the blue isn't permanent like the Kujaku even though it may look that way at first.. So i guess a Kujaku and Kikokuryu could look similar at first but the odds is the Kikokuryu will change over time. Does that help? This is a good article on it. https://hanoverkoifarms.com/about-koi/guide-koi-breeds-kikokuryu/ A pretty good resource for info about fish is the midwest pond and koi society web page.https://mpks.org/category/deeparticles/ I don't if I agree with every single thing written but overall i think it's very good . Another really cool Doitsu is the Shusui. Have you seen them? They are getting really popular now. It is basically a scaleless Asagi and comes insome really bright colors. Here is a picture of one.
118457

How are your new fish doing? Hope they are all well. I'm sure you don't have any recent pictures with the weather but if you do please share them. It sounds like you still have the bug so maybe it's time to plan for another expansion!!!
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Boy you do get around don't ya @CometKeith :)
JW. Yes I guess whether I want to or not! My wife has a huge bucket list of places she wants to go to and either I stay home and watch my fish or I go with her. We are planning to do a 17 day trip to Vietnam and Cambodia and will be going to most of the major cities in both countries and also will be seeing a lot of historical and cultural sites. It's particularly interesting for me because when I was a teenager this was the last place in the world I wanted to go! Fortunately the draft ended the year I turned 18 and I didn't have to go there. I still remember my draft number from back then as it was pretty low. I'm looking forward to the trip and hoping my "business" will still be around when I get back!
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Hi Gemma. I have been mostly learning about Showa and Sanke. There is so much to know about them it's crazy. Also of course Kohaku are very nice too as they round out the big three. So obviously anything Doitsu are scaleless. I have been interested in Doitsu Sanke as they are some of the most beautiful Sanke and have unique colors. Kujaku have a blue undertone. On a sad note when I lost my Kujaku last winter part of it was disintegrated. It had the brightest blue layer of skin under the outer skin I ever saw. I couldn't believe it was a natural color. Kikokuryu are known for their color change and are really Doitsu Kumonryu. Whatever you get it doesn't necessarily stay that way and the blue isn't permanent like the Kujaku even though it may look that way at first.. So i guess a Kujaku and Kikokuryu could look similar at first but the odds is the Kikokuryu will change over time. Does that help? This is a good article on it. https://hanoverkoifarms.com/about-koi/guide-koi-breeds-kikokuryu/ A pretty good resource for info about fish is the midwest pond and koi society web page.https://mpks.org/category/deeparticles/ I don't if I agree with every single thing written but overall i think it's very good . Another really cool Doitsu is the Shusui. Have you seen them? They are getting really popular now. It is basically a scaleless Asagi and comes insome really bright colors. Here is a picture of one.
View attachment 118457
How are your new fish doing? Hope they are all well. I'm sure you don't have any recent pictures with the weather but if you do please share them. It sounds like you still have the bug so maybe it's time to plan for another expansion!!!
Hi @CometKeith , thanks for all that info!
Out of the big 3 ( lol not GM, Ford and Chrysler) I would really love a Showa!...but I'm pretty sure once in my pond, it would lose all the red and look more like a Shiro Utsuri...which it wouldn't be as bad as my once Sunke turning into a Shiro Bekko, if I knew for sure that at least the Sumi would keep a nice pattern. Too many "if" for me to take a chance.
@audioenvy brought up an interesting point a while back, saying it's not my pond, it's the genetics of the fish, and that might very possibly be true, but I cannot make myself spend more than 300$ on a fish, first I'll wait and see what yours do. :)
I do have a 2yr old (will be 3 this year) Shusui, but it looks nothing like the Japanese kind, it's all red with a dark zipper along it's back and a fainted blue on its face, no white.
About my new fish: The little kujaku unfortunately didn't make it, perhaps it was just too small! I stopped buying fish smaller than 10" because they never did well in my pond, either dying or becoming snake/frog food, but last Fall I took a chance because the price was too good to pass.
The other new fish seem to be doing good. I've been keeping a close eye on them, feeling a bit guilty for putting them in the pond that late in the season (I really thought I had more time before the cold), but they seemed fine, they're very alert, I can see them eating the growth on the liner and swimming slowly at the bottom, always very close to one another.
This was the first time that I bought fish and not fed them right away. I just put them in the water and left them, they have no idea how much they're loved! I can't wait till it's warm enough to feed them.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Hi @CometKeith , thanks for all that info!
Out of the big 3 ( lol not GM, Ford and Chrysler) I would really love a Showa!...but I'm pretty sure once in my pond, it would lose all the red and look more like a Shiro Utsuri...which it wouldn't be as bad as my once Sunke turning into a Shiro Bekko, if I knew for sure that at least the Sumi would keep a nice pattern. Too many "if" for me to take a chance.
@audioenvy brought up an interesting point a while back, saying it's not my pond, it's the genetics of the fish, and that might very possibly be true, but I cannot make myself spend more than 300$ on a fish, first I'll wait and see what yours do. :)
I do have a 2yr old (will be 3 this year) Shusui, but it looks nothing like the Japanese kind, it's all red with a dark zipper along it's back and a fainted blue on its face, no white.
About my new fish: The little kujaku unfortunately didn't make it, perhaps it was just too small! I stopped buying fish smaller than 10" because they never did well in my pond, either dying or becoming snake/frog food, but last Fall I took a chance because the price was too good to pass.
The other new fish seem to be doing good. I've been keeping a close eye on them, feeling a bit guilty for putting them in the pond that late in the season (I really thought I had more time before the cold), but they seemed fine, they're very alert, I can see them eating the growth on the liner and swimming slowly at the bottom, always very close to one another.
This was the first time that I bought fish and not fed them right away. I just put them in the water and left them, they have no idea how much they're loved! I can't wait till it's warm enough to feed them.
I'm sorry about your Kujaku. I think it's rough for the fish when there is a big drop in temps and they are not used to it. So without being snobby about Japanese Koi being better I think there are a lot of good reasons to buy them if you don't mind spending the extra money.
A. Typically the parents with the best bloodlines are used so the best genetics are typically sought after in Japan. Also not every show quality Koi produces the best fry so you have to know which pair of fish will produce the best babies. Each hatchery in Japan is known for raising one or two particular types of Koi so there is a lot of specialization. Also their knowledge goes from generation to generation so there is a huge experience factor.
B. Culling- I think from 1000000 yes 1 million fry! less than 1000 fish make it to their selling tanks. That's a huge cull ratio. Also they are expert at knowing which fish to keep and cull. Only the strongest and best examples of the type of Koi are kept.
C. Husbandry. The are know for growth rates in their mud ponds that are phenomenal. The best food and growing conditions are provided to bring out all the potential each fish has. Also as I mentioned above they do let their fish go through the seasons and go through very cold months so these are not babied. It has been shown that Japanese Koi live the longest.
So someone could say I'm not into all the prestige of having imported Koi ......... and all that but really there are very good reasons the Japanese Koi are the best. I'm far from an expert, but so far I have been happy with my two Japanese Koi and they are doing well. I definitely think it's worth the extra investment to get the best fish you can considering they will hopefully be your pets for a long time.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
. It sounds like you still have the bug so maybe it's time to plan for another expansion!!!
It's hard to fight the bug when my husband keeps encouraging me to search for new koi (he's bad lol he even gave me coupons for Christmas).. but there is no way to expand either one of my ponds and I really don't want to dig a third one. I have 2 shubunkins and 18 koi in 9,200gls of water, I don't think I have room for more, he thinks I could add at least 5...what do you think?
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
4,128
Reaction score
3,222
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hardiness Zone
6 A
Country
If I had the room, I'd add an Ochiba .....I believe the name means "falling leaves" in Japanese. I'm attaching a picture I found on the internet.

That said, I don't have the room if I want my 4 koi to remain happy :) We're to get a real cold snap this week end, so I need to plug in my Pond Breather. My pond is completely covered with a pool solar cover and a small aerator running, but I put the PB in the pond, leaving it unplugged, in case of very cold weather.
118459
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,816
Reaction score
2,679
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
If I had the room, I'd add an Ochiba .....I believe the name means "falling leaves" in Japanese. I'm attaching a picture I found on the internet.

That said, I don't have the room if I want my 4 koi to remain happy :) We're to get a real cold snap this week end, so I need to plug in my Pond Breather. My pond is completely covered with a pool solar cover and a small aerator running, but I put the PB in the pond, leaving it unplugged, in case of very cold weather.View attachment 118459
You are the reason I had to have one! :)
That is a beautiful Ochiba! Mine is a Ginrin, with a lot of silver and dark chocolate markings
I'm curious to see what my little Ochiba will be like, as far as personality. Usually when I got fish through the mail I've always wondered if they were still alive until I opened the box, but not this little guy, it was hitting the sides of the box with full force... I had to laugh when I opened the box and saw just how small it was instead. I had never seen a 6" koi that chubby, I wonder if it's a girl.

@Tula, I read that Ochiba darken with age, do you happen to know if the patterns also changes, or do they keep the same exact pattern?
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Chicago Area
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
It's hard to fight the bug when my husband keeps encouraging me to search for new koi (he's bad lol he even gave me coupons for Christmas).. but there is no way to expand either one of my ponds and I really don't want to dig a third one. I have 2 shubunkins and 18 koi in 9,200gls of water, I don't think I have room for more, he thinks I could add at least 5...what do you think?
Hi Gemma. So the big questions is what kind of filtration do you have? I know the boring but.... very important stuff! That will give an indicator of what your pond can hold. I'm looking into getting a bead filter with an external pump this spring. Something like this for the filter. https://webbsonline.com/Item/Ultima-II-Bio-Tube-Filter-11190
I'm guessing you should probably have something a lot better for you pond size and bio-load. from what I understand the most preferable ones are like this or larger if you have room. https://www.azponds.com/product/kodama-bio-clean-pond-filter-5000-gallons/
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads


Top