Mystery fish death with ph swings

[zinjy]

Okay, bad news. There is now another fish behaving similarly. I noticed today that it swam to the middle of the pond and just sat there near the surface (not gulping air, just near the surface) while the other fish cruise around the bottom eating. I have never seen this fish behave like this before, but this is what the other one did towards the end. I watched it for a while and it did not eat, when startled it swam down quickly but then went to another area of the pond where it also just swam in place near the top not eating. Typically the fish are grazing on the bottom constantly, and moving to new areas constantly, including this one in the past. I noticed that this fish is noticeably smaller than another fish I got at the same time as it, which used to be about the same size, so I wonder if the not eating thing has been going on for longer.

Please share ideas of how I could help this fish before it succumbs to a similar fate.

 

[Ray G]

oh Dear. Well a few things to think about. Is the fish thin or just small. Is its belly sunken in a bit compared to the others? Or is it extended (even bloated) or is its belly about the same as the others? Secondly there are no signs of any spots or marks on the fish? Thirdly when it goes near the surface is that near a waterfall or fountain or just generally near the surface. Last when startled and it goes down from the top does it rejoin the others for a while or go to a place on its own when it is not near the surface. Photos would help of course.

Ray

 

[zinjy]

The fish is small, I'm not sure if I would call it thin but it's definitely not bloated. Another fish the same age is quite a bit larger and fatter (Although I've noticed that other fish I've had don't seem to grow at the same rate of speed necessarily, but I noticed it because I don't see it eating constantly now like the others do and I had noticed the disparity in size between the two of them recently, so I wonder if it hasn't been eating as much for a while). The previous fish that died got less round than it used to be, before it died, but I thought maybe it had had eggs and this was also why it was tired and wanted to be by itself now (especially as I saw the previous fish being nudged around by other fish a lot before that, I thought maybe they were bothering it and it wanted to be alone... I'm thinking now my theory was incorrect).

As to the current problem fish, I could not identify any problem spots on it, but it's not solid color. I'll try to get a picture when it's light again (historically though I've had a hard time getting non-blurry pics of them). When it goes near the surface it doesn't go to the aerators or bubbler, it just sits near the surface below the water level usually in the middle of the pond (not eating things from the surface either, just slowly paddling in place). It doesn't seem to be gasping or having labored breathing. This was also what the dead fish did before it died. When it is startled (which is easily done) it doesn't typically rejoin the others, but quickly swims down and then later comes near the top in another area of the pond. However, this fish doesn't seem quite so insistent on being alone as the previous fish. It still hangs out near the others sometimes, it's just near the top doing nothing while they are down grazing along the bottom. Previously, this fish regularly hung out with the other fish and grazed with them, this is a recent behavior change. I'd never seen it near the surface at all before the other day (A couple of the fish will sometimes cruise near the surface looking for things on the water surface to eat, but this isn't one of the ones that does that, and it's not trying to eat anything at the surface when it sits there either).

 

[Ray G]

The fish is small, I'm not sure if I would call it thin but it's definitely not bloated. Another fish the same age is quite a bit larger and fatter (Although I've noticed that other fish I've had don't seem to grow at the same rate of speed necessarily, but I noticed it because I don't see it eating constantly now like the others do and I had noticed the disparity in size between the two of them recently, so I wonder if it hasn't been eating as much for a while). The previous fish that died got less round than it used to be, before it died, but I thought maybe it had had eggs and this was also why it was tired and wanted to be by itself now (especially as I saw the previous fish being nudged around by other fish a lot before that, I thought maybe they were bothering it and it wanted to be alone... I'm thinking now my theory was incorrect).

As to the current problem fish, I could not identify any problem spots on it, but it's not solid color. I'll try to get a picture when it's light again (historically though I've had a hard time getting non-blurry pics of them). When it goes near the surface it doesn't go to the aerators or bubbler, it just sits near the surface below the water level usually in the middle of the pond (not eating things from the surface either, just slowly paddling in place). It doesn't seem to be gasping or having labored breathing. This was also what the dead fish did before it died. When it is startled (which is easily done) it doesn't typically rejoin the others, but quickly swims down and then later comes near the top in another area of the pond. However, this fish doesn't seem quite so insistent on being alone as the previous fish. It still hangs out near the others sometimes, it's just near the top doing nothing while they are down grazing along the bottom. Previously, this fish regularly hung out with the other fish and grazed with them, this is a recent behavior change. I'd never seen it near the surface at all before the other day (A couple of the fish will sometimes cruise near the surface looking for things on the water surface to eat, but this isn't one of the ones that does that, and it's not trying to eat anything at the surface when it sits there either).

Ok Got it! Good description of behaviour but photos would also help if you can. So the first thing is I would not overreact to the behaviour. It might be just feeling off or it might not be as hungry as the others. So I guess the question is does it do this all the time or just sometimes? Is it behaving normally sometimes? If it is behaving like this all the time I would quarantine it from the pond. Just incase it has any internal parasites that have spread from the previous one that died. If the fish behaves normally some of the time I would just keep an eye on it at this time. If you quarantine if then treatment would be easier. Do you have a kiddie pool or something like that to put it in with pond water?

Ray

 

[zinjy]

I really appreciate the advice by the way! I am trying to keep calm But I was very sad about the last fish so this got me alarmed as I've never seen this one behaving like this before, and that was how the last one did at the end! (I'd pretty much decided that was just how the previous fish acted and it was just a loner, when suddenly it up and died). So the good news is, I remembered that I was able to sneak up on the previous ill fish and get a really close look at it under cover of darkness with a flashlight (I got close because it could not see me, but I did not discover anything as a result), so I decided to try some nighttime-photography this time and some of the pictures came out ok. Here is the current fish. It was not hanging near the surface anymore in the dark (it did so all day, I checked on it multiple times), but it was still pretty listless tonight, paddling slowly around while the other fish were off zooming around about their business. Here it is: Does it look overly thin? Should I remove it from the pond? (And do what to help it?) I don't have another pool, pond or tank :/ but I could put it in a large weeding bucket if necessary, I just don't want to do something that will actually be so stressful as to worsen its chances of recovery.

 

[Ray G]

I really appreciate the advice by the way! I am trying to keep calm But I was very sad about the last fish so this got me alarmed as I've never seen this one behaving like this before, and that was how the last one did at the end! (I'd pretty much decided that was just how the previous fish acted and it was just a loner, when suddenly it up and died). So the good news is, I remembered that I was able to sneak up on the previous ill fish and get a really close look at it under cover of darkness with a flashlight (I got close because it could not see me, but I did not discover anything as a result), so I decided to try some nighttime-photography this time and some of the pictures came out ok. Here is the current fish. It was not hanging near the surface anymore in the dark (it did so all day, I checked on it multiple times), but it was still pretty listless tonight, paddling slowly around while the other fish were off zooming around about their business. Here it is: Does it look overly thin? Should I remove it from the pond? (And do what to help it?) I don't have another pool, pond or tank :/ but I could put it in a large weeding bucket if necessary, I just don't want to do something that will actually be so stressful as to worsen its chances of recovery.
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I know how stressful sick fish (or any pet) are! Because it is behaving in a similar way to the dead fish then I would put it in the bucket. Fish adapt quickly to different containers as long as the water is good. So use water from your pond. Put a plant in the bucket or a leaf of something from the pond as well and it will adapt. THe photos are very good. I cannot see any signs of fungus or bacterial infections on the fish so I assume the problem is internal. Possibly internal parasites. If the fish poo is white that is a sign of parasites. If it is brownish then hard to tell what is ailing it. So I would put it in the bucket with stuff from the pond (rock with algae on it etc) and make it comfortable and watch its behaviour each day. Clean the bucket thoroughly before you do any of this. After a day or so if it takes an interest in eating then give it a small amount of fish flakes. Do you live near a good pet shop?

 

[zinjy]

Thank you! I will set up a large bucket habitat for it tomorrow in the daylight. I do not have a good pet shop nearby, this fish came from one a ways away (it was one of the first fish in the pond, a couple months ago). There are some closer ones but I was not happy with the condition of their fish.

 

[Ray G]

Let us know how it progresses when you have it in the new habitat (much nicer than a bucket!) .

 

[zinjy]

Well, so far today the fish is not hanging at the surface anymore, I only got a glimpse of it this morning in fact. If the most likely candidate is internal parasites, would a salt bath help?

 

[Ray G]

no a salt bath would help for external parasites but not internal. So the fish is behaving normally and is still in the pond?

 

[zinjy]

no a salt bath would help for external parasites but not internal. So the fish is behaving normally and is still in the pond?

At this point I'm not sure of its behavior as I could not find it when I checked again at lunch planning to move it to the bucket if necessary.
Most of the fish were hiding this afternoon for some reason though, maybe because it's especially hot and sunny today? This morning it was not hanging near the surface but I caught a glimpse of it, then it hid somewhere, haven't seen it since. I'll have to check again after work :/

 

[zinjy]

How should I treat it if I get it in the bucket to help with internal parasites?

 

[Ray G]

prazi medication is the best thing for internal parasites BUT we dont know if it has that yet. Lets see how it goes. One of my Koi is very shy. It always has been. Wont eat until all the other Koi have eaten. Another one is the most easily scared of the bunch when any loud noises happen and almost panics compared to the others. They all are different to some degree like people. If it is no longer showing symptoms when you get home then is it probably feeling better. Lets see how it is behaving when you get home.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Really no way to know for sure if you have external parasites unless you have a microscope.

You can read a little about using a microscope to help you diagnose and treat your goldfish (or koi) here: https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/taking-a-scrape-of-your-koi-or-goldfish.14555/

 

[Ray G]

Really no way to know for sure if you have external parasites unless you have a microscope.

You can read a little about using a microscope to help you diagnose and treat your goldfish (or koi) here: https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/taking-a-scrape-of-your-koi-or-goldfish.14555/

agreed however often there is rubbing or flashing behaviour due to the skin irritation.