Well, this evening it was staying hidden for a while under plants but then swam out and around a bit so I could see, not hanging at the surface anymore still, though not as active as the others. It still doesn't seem to be grazing like the others but I guess I will just keep an eye on it for now. Should I be concerned that it's not eating like the others, based on how it looks in the picture?
Mystery fish death with ph swings
- Thread starter zinjy
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Sadly I found the fish dead today :'(. I retested the pond, but numbers seem ok: pH 8.2. Kh 7 drops/125.3. gh 8 drops/143.2. ammonia between 0-.25ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 0ppm. Between the first death and this fish getting sick, I did add some more baking soda, epsom salt, calcium chloride, and oyster shells (not all at once) which accounts for the kh/gh increase.
What should I try now? Treat the pond with something? I am concerned for my remaining 6. These are the first fish deaths I've had and this last fish seemed to go pretty quickly.
What should I try now? Treat the pond with something? I am concerned for my remaining 6. These are the first fish deaths I've had and this last fish seemed to go pretty quickly.
I really am seeing some similarities between what you are describing and what we recently experienced with our pond. One by one our fish started dying. Nothing all that remarkable in the way they were behaving prior to suddenly showing some lethargy, some isolation behavior but no signs of any infection or injury or irritation. As we started being more observant, we would see them about an hour before they would die come to the top and at the very end, gasp for air. Unfortunately we lost a number of fish either over night or during the early morning hours and we didn't see any of the behaviors until we had already lost 6 or 7 fish. We lost at LEAST one fish a day for seven days straight - on the worst day, we woke up to five dead fish - before we narrowed the possible cause down to internal parasites. We treated the pond with praziquantel (specifically PraziPro but I don't think the brand matters) - we lost a couple more fish that were already too far gone before we treated the pond, but the die off stopped after that. All has been well ever since. Sadly we lost half of our fish, but we are confident we landed on the right solution as we haven't lost a fish in a few weeks now.
I'm not saying this is for sure your issue, but I was getting some real sense of deja vu reading your posts. Just like you, our water tested fine, we ruled out contamination, couldn't see any visible signs of anything wrong with the fish AT ALL - even dead, they looked perfect.
I'm not saying this is for sure your issue, but I was getting some real sense of deja vu reading your posts. Just like you, our water tested fine, we ruled out contamination, couldn't see any visible signs of anything wrong with the fish AT ALL - even dead, they looked perfect.
Sounds much the same. I am sorry you had to lose fish too
. The fish did look just fine, this one must have just died when I found it, I could almost have believed it was still alive (it wasn't, I examined it very closely, and could find nothing unusual at all). I got a bit scared reading prazi experiences online where people had massive fish kills. But at this rate I'm afraid they're not going to last much longer either way, I'd really hate to lose more. I may order some (don't know if it will arrive in time to help at this rate but we'll see) so at least I have it if this keeps going on.One other thing I am concerned about: what is the effect of prazi on other animals in the pond? There are a lot of baby newts living in the pond which I only see at night, but I don't want to kill them all by dosing the pond, and I know amphibians can be sensitive.
If I removed the fish from the pond and dosed them separately, how long would it take parasites living in the pond to die out without having fish hosts around?
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Very sad about the second fish. Prazi acts in about a week as far as I can recall. It was developed for worming warmblooded animals like dogs etc. Has been around for a long time. Is the best thing for internal parasites. My post yesterday said lets wait and see what happens. Now the second one has died I think the lesson learnt from Liza's horrible experience is that now is the time to act. Prazi is fairly safe for most things around a pond. I dont think it would affect the natural life in your pond. Prazi is the next logical thing to administer. Particularly as the other fish are still healthy. Follow the instructions carefully and dont over or under apply the dosage. I dont think you are facing immediate wipe-out of the fish population in your pond but this is definitely what I would do next.
Ray
Ray
I was worried too, @zinjy as I am not quick to medicate anything... myself included! But we really felt like we were just going to be watching fish die until they were all gone if we didn't try it. Most everything I read said the medication was safe for everything BUT the parasites, and we've seen no ill effects to the many frogs, birds, chipmunks, etc that visit our pond. Our little dog drinks from the pond daily - so I guess if she had worms, she doesn't anymore!
When we added the praziquantel to the pond, we had significant foaming by morning. The foaming lasted for a full 7 days - mainly near the waterfall and aerator, where the water was being agitated. I took it as a good sign that the medication was still actively working. By day 8 the foaming was magically done. And like I said, we haven't lost a single fish since the two that were dead the next day. I held my breath every single morning - still do quite honestly - but our fish have returned to absolute normal.
The first two or three days after treatment, they were ALL lethargic - just to warn you if you do treat your pond. We had stopped feeding them when we were still trying to figure out what was going on - we were concerned that maybe the food had been contaminated or had gone bad. But they were completely uninterested in us for those first few days of treatment. Normally when I walk up to the pond, they all rush to the side to greet me. It wasn't until about the fourth day or so that they started to perk up and start to look for food. It's so good to see them back to their usual constant movement, poking around everywhere, looking for delicious snacks!
When we added the praziquantel to the pond, we had significant foaming by morning. The foaming lasted for a full 7 days - mainly near the waterfall and aerator, where the water was being agitated. I took it as a good sign that the medication was still actively working. By day 8 the foaming was magically done. And like I said, we haven't lost a single fish since the two that were dead the next day. I held my breath every single morning - still do quite honestly - but our fish have returned to absolute normal.
The first two or three days after treatment, they were ALL lethargic - just to warn you if you do treat your pond. We had stopped feeding them when we were still trying to figure out what was going on - we were concerned that maybe the food had been contaminated or had gone bad. But they were completely uninterested in us for those first few days of treatment. Normally when I walk up to the pond, they all rush to the side to greet me. It wasn't until about the fourth day or so that they started to perk up and start to look for food. It's so good to see them back to their usual constant movement, poking around everywhere, looking for delicious snacks!
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Sounds like you have decent water parameters now, maybe the fish were stressed from the wild pH swings, allowing weakness in their natural immunity, preventing them from fighting off some bug. If the fish are small you could feed medicated flake food to treat for both internal and external parasites rather than dosing the whole pond, which can get expensive: https://angelsplus.com/collections/fish-medications/products/medicated-deworming-flakes
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It is too late to quarantine separate from your pond now, but I like to quarantine new fish, treating initially with a salt bath, and then feeding with the medicated flakes for a period of time before adding the new fish to the general population.
Thanks for the responses. I really wasn't expecting the 2nd fish to go so quickly but it seems there may not be time to wait and see with whatever it is they have, so I've ordered some prazi.
I don't think the medicated flakes would necessarily work in this case as even when healthy the fish don't want to eat anything I give them, just what's already in the pond. The sick ones have just not eaten period (I tried putting a variety of food right in front of the nose of the first fish, nothing.)
Any thoughts about potentially dosing the fish out of the pond in a separate container and waiting for what is in the pond to die off? This way I would not use as much, I could measure it more exactly (my pond is very irregular so I'm only estimating the size) and wouldn't affect the newts. I'm just not sure how long it would take for parasites to die without a host, or if they can linger around until the fish return.
I don't think the medicated flakes would necessarily work in this case as even when healthy the fish don't want to eat anything I give them, just what's already in the pond. The sick ones have just not eaten period (I tried putting a variety of food right in front of the nose of the first fish, nothing.)
Any thoughts about potentially dosing the fish out of the pond in a separate container and waiting for what is in the pond to die off? This way I would not use as much, I could measure it more exactly (my pond is very irregular so I'm only estimating the size) and wouldn't affect the newts. I'm just not sure how long it would take for parasites to die without a host, or if they can linger around until the fish return.
I agree with you on the medicated food - once we realized our fish were sick, they had stopped eating. And it's tough to make sure they DO eat, or eat enough. Much harder to regulate and seems more suited as a preventative than a cure for fish that are already infected. But that's just an opinion.
As for dosing outside the pond - how many fish do you have? Do you have something large enough that would hold them for 7 full days safely? As for how long the parasites can live without a host - I have no clue, but did wonder the same thing myself! But since we had so many fish that needed treating, we just went ahead and did the whole pond.
As for dosing outside the pond - how many fish do you have? Do you have something large enough that would hold them for 7 full days safely? As for how long the parasites can live without a host - I have no clue, but did wonder the same thing myself! But since we had so many fish that needed treating, we just went ahead and did the whole pond.
from memory your fish are small. And you dont have a small pool you could use to treat them! So I would treat the whole pond BECAUSE the parasites are in the pond. They got there some some other animal bringing them to the pond usually. So I would definitely treat the whole pond if you are going to treat with Prazi. Remember the fish got the parasites from something in the water so you want to kill all the parasites not just the ones in the fish. Yes it is expensive but does kill parasites.
Yes, they are small, there are only 6 left now, and they'd have to live temporarily in my largest bucket if I pulled them out. If the newts can survive treatment maybe it would help them too, for all I know they could also be carriers I suppose. I noticed some tiny snails in the pond that I didn't put there too. Besides that there are a lot of insects, and birds bathe in the pond, and most likely other wild animals come to drink as well at night, there is a fair amount of wildlife around here. I'm not sure what other animals host fish parasites.
I dosed the pond with PraziPro on Saturday. So far so good; the remaining 6 fish are still eating busily and I did not see any evidence of ill effects on the newts or other pond wildlife. Also, today for the first time I saw some 1/2" fry! This makes me very happy, as perhaps some of them will survive to replace my departed fish. It also makes me glad I decided to dose the whole pond, as otherwise the hidden fry would have escaped treatment.
I'm not planning on adding any fish for a while, especially now that I have some fry, but for future reference is it a good idea to treat new incoming fish with prazi and/or other treatment before adding them to the pond? I ask because even with quarantining I don't think I would have noticed the problem with the first fish in isolation, before adding it to the pond (that's if the problem even came from that fish; could have been introduced to the pond another way I guess such as the bird idea).
I'm not planning on adding any fish for a while, especially now that I have some fry, but for future reference is it a good idea to treat new incoming fish with prazi and/or other treatment before adding them to the pond? I ask because even with quarantining I don't think I would have noticed the problem with the first fish in isolation, before adding it to the pond (that's if the problem even came from that fish; could have been introduced to the pond another way I guess such as the bird idea).