New pond owner bog controversy and questions.. please help

[Hertel11]

Hello all. Thanks for having me on your forum. I've got a couple questions/concerns about a pond I recently acquired through a real estate transaction but first let me give you some background. The previous owner of the property operates a waterscapes company and he actually constructed this pond and lived here many years untilhis new wife made him leave so now I'm here. The pond is about 4 feet deep and maybe 50ft long and 30 ft wide. I'll attach pictures. Anyway, the previous owner recently texted us asking for us to hire him to clean our bogs, a once a year job he said. We though "okay no big deal" but then it turns out he wants to charge just under $1000. We told him no thanks we'll figure it out ourselves. Then he goes on to tell us that we must have him come over for at least 4 hours with 2 guys ($480) to get us "in good shape" and "trained" so we could do it ourselves next time or else excess mucky water could get into the pond. He says he has a "vested interest" in making sure it is done correctly. Well aside from all that I don't really want to hire him now just because he is being pushy and if he was really that vested he could just give us some guidance over the phone or something and we'd do it ourselves without paying hundreds of dollars. Ok sorry for the rant, here is my question. How do I clean these bogs? There are 2, 1 each at the top of waterfalls, 4inch? PVC from the pumps up to about 10-12inch perforated PVC pipe underneath gravel/river rock. As far as I can tell there is no clean out pipe but I do have access into the large perforated pipes if need be. There are no plants in either bog but we do have a lot in the main pond. About 12 koi in the pond each probably 12" or so and some small goldfish. My intention is to shut off the pump 1 side at a time and using a shop vac, shovel, power sprayer, and my hands clean out the muck. Maybe just shovel the rocks into a bucket with holes and spray them off that way. There is quite a bit of muck, maybe up to 4 inches in some spots on the big one. Does this seem like an okay plan? What is a reasonable price someone would charge to do this? I'm more of a DIY kinda guy anyway and I don't mind hard manual labor or dirty jobs. Thanks!

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! Sorry you are having problems with the previous owner, but you are within your rights to refuse.

I’m not an expert, but in general, bogs don’t have to be cleaned. Please don’t remove and power wash anything — it isn’t necessary, and it can be detrimental. If you have a lot of muck, maybe you can scoop it out with a net or a pond vac.

 

[poconojoe]

I think your instinct has well guided you. That guy seems too pushy and it seems he just wants to empty your wallet.

There are some real experienced members here when it comes to bogs. Hopefully someone will chime in. From what I've read here though, you very rarely, if at all need to clean out your bog. However, I'm a little surprised that you mentioned muck buildup. So, maybe there's something you can do. Maybe backwash it somehow into your garden. Shovelling and rinsing the gravel would be a crazy amount of hard work.

I'm currently adding a bog and shovelling the gravel from my truck into a wheelbarrow. No matter how much I rinse that stuff, it still contains a considerable amount of mud. So, rinsing is not an easy task.

Looking forward to seeing some responses to your questions.

 

[poconojoe]

Oh, I'll add the following since it appears you might be new at this pond hobby...

Don't drain or power wash your pond. It currently has an important biofilm covering everything and if you power wash it, you'll upset your pond's ecology.

Don't use any miracle snake oil chemicals. If you think you have a water problem, it's best to deal with it a natural way. If you need to add water and you're on central water that is treated, you need to use a dechlorinizer. That's the only thing I ever add to my pond. There are a few water conditioning dechlorinizers out there to choose from.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. There's a bunch of friendly knowledgeable folks here. You won't find any snobs here!

 

[Hertel11]

I mean even on our walkthrough he mentioned powerspraying the bogs yearly. He admittedly has done some great work around Columbus, OH that I've seen personally and on his website and the water here has always been crystal clear. We do use MuckAway tablets and PondClear Beneficial bacteria packets per his suggestion. There definately is muck buildup, especially in the larger bog but we are really not very great at netting leaves or debris from the pond. At a minimum I intend to try and vacuum out (6.5hp workhorse wet/dry vac) a majority of the muck or as much as I can. I'm surprised by the buildup as well and the lack of plants in the bog...? But, this is my first pond ever and only had it a few months. The pump up to the big one is 97 GPM and does not have any kind of covering over where it draws water. We have a skimmer/mesh bag in front of the pump and a regular filter with the like curly rubber/plastic stuff.

 

[Jhn]

Are the “bogs” those upper pools in the pics at the tops of the streams?

Also what is under the stack of rocks in the middle of the upper pool, it looks like it could be a snorkel hidden in there?

If it is that is your access point to clean out the bog, especially if the perforated pipe is attached to the snorkel which is a vertical pipe that sticks up above the rock. Ideally, if built correctly you drop a pump into the snorkel which is the lowest point in the bog where all the solids will settle and pump it out maybe once a year.

If there are no plants in the bogs they aren’t really bogs, just settling pools to catch the silt that gets pumped up out of the pond with the water.

Skip the muckaway tablets and the beneficial bacteria packets, the former doesn’t really do much of anything and the latter is just useless as there is already a bacteria population established in the pond.

Also part of the problem is if there is no pre filter on the pumps they can pump larger plant matter, mulm and other junk that can clog up the bog quickly.

 

[poconojoe]

That guy is just soaking everyone. He's in it for the money. You don't need to waste money adding beneficial bacteria. Your pond already has plenty of it's own. You don't need muck away or whatever it's called. Believe me.

Those bogs should have lots of plants. They are one of the basic components of a bog. The nutrient rich water (created by the fish waste) rises up through the gravel to the plant roots. The plants suck up the nutrients starving out the algae. The results are clear water.

Buy or relocate some of your plants into the bog. Remove the pots and plant them directly in the gravel. A lot of plants will grow in the bog. They don't necessarily have to be "bog plants". Heck, some people said they have grown vegetables in their bog! There are lists in these forums of plants you can use. Pick plants that are native to your area so they come back every Spring. Less work for you every Spring.

 

[Hertel11]

Are the “bogs” those upper pools in the pics at the tops of the streams?

Also what is under the stack of rocks in the middle of the upper pool, it looks like it could be a snorkel hidden in there?

If it is that is your access point to clean out the bog, especially if the perforated pipe is attached to the snorkel which is a vertical pipe that sticks up above the rock. Ideally, if built correctly you drop a pump into the snorkel which is the lowest point in the bog where all the solids will settle and pump it out maybe once a year.

If there are no plants in the bogs they aren’t really bogs, just settling pools to catch the silt that gets pumped up out of the pond with the water.

Skip the muckaway tablets and the beneficial bacteria packets, the former doesn’t really do much of anything and the latter is just useless as there is already a bacteria population established in the pond.

Yes, there are vertical pipes that attach to the perforated pipes in each. The upper pools are what I've been referring to as bogs. Can you reccomend a pump to use (right now I only have a very small transfer pump certainly not suited for solids)? Is it acceptable to just wet vac out these snorkels? What plants should I add?

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our forum!

in 10 years I have never cleaned out my bogs except yanking extra plants that grow real fast. The dirt on the top of the gravel is normal, you could use a vac with a screen over the opening and suck it out.
You could also use a good water stream and push it to the edge and over and out. But have your water flow to the pond turned off so it does not flow right back into the pond.

Not sure where you are but you need plants, fill the two bogs with plants and your pond will be nicely taken care of. The pond is very nicely done.

 

[Jhn]

Yes, there are vertical pipes that attach to the perforated pipes in each. The upper pools are what I've been referring to as bogs. Can you reccomend a pump to use (right now I only have a very small transfer pump certainly not suited for solids)? Is it acceptable to just wet vac out these snorkels? What plants should I add?

Ok those are your snorkels, You can wet vacuum it out, or get a pump of some type like a sump pump doesn’t need to be expensive, some cheap hose that lets you pump it out away from the pond. Wet vac would be more work.

In all likelihood what the previous owner does is shut the pumps down, throws a pump in the snorkel and starts pumping it out, as the water gets lower in the upper pools he powerwashes the rocks blowing all the silt back down through the rocks into the centipede (perforated pipe) into the snorkel and keeps pumping it out until it runs clear.

just make sure the water level stays down so the dirty water doesn’t flow back into the main pond.

I would do as addy suggested use the wet vac and suck the silt off the top of the rocks then either wet vac out or pump out the snorkel until the water starts to run clear.Then most of the silt should be out of the bog and as was mentioned add a lot of plants in the bogs.

 

[Lisak1]

Welcome to the GPF! We run a bog filter on our pond so I can confidently tell you that if this guy is as good as he claims to be, then your bog shouldn't need to be cleaned. His approach is actually pretty darn shady. That's your pond now, so you get to learn how to keep it in good shape!

Are there any plants growing in the pond at all?

 

[Hertel11]

Are there any plants growing in the pond at all?

Yes, there are some lilly pads that were here in August when we bought the place and are starting to pop back up again and a few other types but I don't really know what kind. I can take some pictures tomorrow. Can you recommend plants to add to the bogs. We are in central OH.

 

[Hertel11]

Ok those are your snorkels, You can wet vacuum it out, or get a pump of some type like a sump pump doesn’t need to be expensive, some cheap hose that lets you pump it out away from the pond. Wet vac would be more work.

In all likelihood what the previous owner does is shut the pumps down, throws a pump in the snorkel and starts pumping it out, as the water gets lower in the upper pools he powerwashes the rocks blowing all the silt back down through the rocks into the centipede (perforated pipe) into the snorkel and keeps pumping it out until it runs clear.

just make sure the water level stays down so the dirty water doesn’t flow back into the main pond.

Ahh, ok. That makes a lot of sense! I will try doing that and also adding some plants so hopefully muck build up is much slower in the future. Thank you!!

 

[Hertel11]

What about this pump? Handles up to 1/8 inch solids and can pump 25' high and won't break the bank. https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Pum...ld=1&keywords=sump+pump&qid=1588293059&sr=8-5

 

[Jhn]

Ahh, ok. That makes a lot of sense! I will try doing that and also adding some plants so hopefully muck build up is much slower in the future. Thank you!!

Usually It’s not a good idea to power wash the rocks and liner in your pond, as it destroys the biofilm and established bacteria population. You could probably get away with it in those upper pools as it looks like it is only a small portion of your pond setup.

Other option is as addy suggested use the wet vac on the top rocks in the pool/bog and then pump out the snorkel, it should suck all the silty material down to the snorkel.