Old pond came with new house.

[Sur4huy1]

I moved into a new house in December that includes a 900-1,100 gal pond based on general calls. He had it as a filterless for 15 years. I would like to get an external filter hooked up soon, but haven’t yet. It has five koi, one 20+ inches at the fork two 15+ inches at the fork and two about 12 inches and less.

One of the 15 inch started resting on his side two days ago. He immediately gets up and acts normal when he see you, but also occasionally flashes 1-2 times then stops and I may see it again that day or may not. (I’m sure he’s doing it more while I’m at work). I tried to bet him yesterday but missed a few time and stopped so I would stress him more if he was already weak. Want to try again tonight and see his gills. No external marks or swelling (dropsy type bloat) no sores or ulcers. Color is normal, maybe a very little pink which I’ve noticed often happens when stressed.

Water is ph 7.6, ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate zero KH abou 60ppm (a little over 3dkh).

They all have been more sluggish the last two days and we had a cold week. Additional my young son was at home with the grand parents and over fed the crud out of them. I scooped everything out but not sure if that’s a cause.

Pond was salted to 2.0 , and has a little foam since then . Was done on the guidance form a manager of a local aquarium (not a store, it’s dolphins, seals, massive koi pond, sharks, Amazon tanks etc)

The oragngwnand white Guy is the side layer. Sometimes complete side , afternoon may not lay down completely.

Any help trying to diag this fish, and ensure the pond stays balanced would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MitchM]

Welcome!
I would start doing safe water changes to get rid of the salt. (safe meaning to be sure you match water quality parameters)
We can help further with that if you like.
Koi are freshwater fish and keeping them in a salted environment will cause them physiological stress.
That size pond is too small for koi so I would also look at rehoming them and replacing with a maximum number of 6 goldfish.
As the koi have grown, the water quality in the pond has not been able to stay as stable as it once could.
KH should be closer to 6 drops.
I would test the water every few days for KH and PH, (noting what time of day you are taking the PH reading). Use a liquid drop test kit, not test strips. Early morning and late day are the 2 times most relevant for PH.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Thanks Mitch.
Began adding 1/4 cup baking soda to increase dkh and set a buffer.
900-1,100 gam is too small for koi? That’s 3,400-4,100 liters) my understanding was about 100 inches of fish per 1,000 gal (US) .
Thanks again!

 

[MitchM]

The inches of fish per volume of water unit isn't useful because of the varying amount of ammonia a single large fish will produce compared to a high number of smaller fish using the same "inches of fish" measurement.
The first thing to do would be get a good quality liquid drop test kit from API, and in addition get their KH/GH test kit.
Determine what the water quality is so you know with confidence that the steps you are taking are the right ones.
The next thing to do would be try and determine how much sediment has accumulated on the bottom of the pond.
Get rid of the salt in the water.
It's a good thing you added that baking soda.

Next you should determine what you want out of this pond.
Do you want a pond that requires a lot of maintenance, or very little?
With strong filtration and water circulation, you may be able to keep those fish but most people would prefer a low maintenance pond.
The foam you're seeing on the water surface may be an indication of a biofilter that cannot keep up, or it could be a matter of the pond balancing itself out after a long period of low water temperatures.

Focus on water quality first, after that you can decide on what's best for the fish and what you want for a pond.



.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Thanks again Mitch,
I do have the measurements below, never have used strips since i was a kid, as they are unreliable.

The API measurements are ph 7.6 evenings ( need to do mornings as I'm sure its lower with the low dKH.) Ammonia=0, Nitrites=0, Nitrates=0, KH=3dkh, or 53.662ppm.

Water didn't foam until the salt. and will be performing 5-15% water changes over the next few weeks to clear the salt ( the point as i was instructed by the person in charge of the Aquariums Koi is a temporary early spring treatment, that must be changed out over a few weeks as extended exposure damages the kidney of the koi. but the sort exposure at 0.2% was the intended target. ) and i am aware that salt does not evaporate, and will concentrate if its not changed out over time.

As for desires for the pond, not really concerned about maintenance( don't mean that cavalier, just that if it requires maintenance and i can do it, i just cant be lazy, then that's fine), have kept many touchy salt water fish, and many fresh water in tanks that required very high maintenance, from 65 gal intricate reef tanks to nano tanks. Just mentioning so you can see i 1) do have some knowledge of the water just not this type, and 2) that i am aware how valuable experience is and appreciate you sharing yours!

My goal, is once the buffer is established to maintain the same water parameters, get an external canister filter with mechanical and bio , and use that ( I'm not sure how this guy raised 20+ inch coy in a filter less set up, but its not the first time I've heard it being done).

Ammonia and Nitrites and nitrates have remained at Zero, since i got the house in January. PH has remained in the Mid 7's and is currently 7.6 ( but ill be measuring in the morning to see how low it swings at night)

Oh and as for sediment, its pretty clean, i cleaned it out once the fish started mouthing for food, because i didnt know how much may be there from the previous owner. it was clear enough to see when i was scooping and it was pretty clean. over the last week pollen has mad is a bit darker. but i placed a 300 gal /hour pump with filter material to run and i clean it every couple days to keep the pollen from just darkening the water. .

thanks again Mitch.

 

[MitchM]

That's great that you have an understanding for the value of good water quality.
That will certainly help your pond do well.
If you want to keep your KH around the 3 drop area, that will keep the PH closer to 7.0 which in turn will allow you a wider range of plants to choose from.
Lower KH readings can make a pond susceptible to large swings in PH, which are not healthy for fish.
Still check your GH, so your plants, fish and bacteria will have all the mineral components they require for healthy growth. I would recommend a GH reading of 6 drops.
Plants make a great natural filter, and I can't really think of a canister filter/pump combination that can provide adequate water circulation for ponds in general.
Salt has chloride as a component, and plants will uptake the chloride instead of other healthier nutrients and will starve as a result, so it is important to get rid of that salt.
Darker coloured water will have components of humic substances plus planktonic algae, both of which are healthy for a pond. Don't be too focused on obtaining clear water.
You may know this stuff already, but thought I would mention it.
Good luck!

 

[Sur4huy1]

Thank you Mitch!!
All great! And please keep the info coming.
On filtration. If I was to aim to set up filtration, I have been familiar with canisters and sumps form tanks. If I was to target good filtration and circulation, what would you recommend on something this size? In stead of the separate canaster filter. I’m also not afraid of building it, but want to be sure I’m building something that offers value to my filtration. If built I was thinking multi stage with mech and bio and a UV on Intake (so it doesn’t kill the effect of he beneficial bacteria in the filter)
I figure while getting buffer set up and maintaining water and flushing the salt I could be planning and buy or building the filtration since the ground is diggable now (in NY)

 

[sissy]

spawning and lack of oxygen ,maybe he never fed them much .I use stock tanks for my filters

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our group!

I filter with only a bog, pea gravel upflow filter filled with plants. Ponds add up to around 12000 gallons plus or minus.

 

[j.w]

@Sur4huy1

 

[Sur4huy1]

Thanks all !
So tested everything today, and ph was 7.8 GH up to 4 KH stayed at 3? Put 1/4 cup baking soda in yesterday to raise KH. But at 7.8, should I continue adding 1/4 cup? I know the koi can go up to 8.0 ph but don’t want to keep jumping the needle if I’m at the top of the range.

Note, measured ph at 7.6 yesterday but DID NOT use the high ph test , so I could have under measured that. Thinking I should wait a day or so and get good measurements before adding anything more?

 

[Sparky]

Thanks all !
So tested everything today, and ph was 7.8 GH up to 4 KH stayed at 3? Put 1/4 cup baking soda in yesterday to raise KH. But at 7.8, should I continue adding 1/4 cup? I know the koi can go up to 8.0 ph but don’t want to keep jumping the needle if I’m at the top of the range.

Note, measured ph at 7.6 yesterday but DID NOT use the high ph test , so I could have under measured that. Thinking I should wait a day or so and get good measurements before adding anything more?

Small steps but you know that. You mentioned flashing. Is this still being exhibited? Is it just one or two in a row or in clusters? I know you want to keeps stress down but it sure would be good to get a close look at that fish.

 

[Sur4huy1]

No flashing today, that I observed. Got back late from NYC . tomorrow im Working from home
So no commute and I can try for him in the morning, After I test PH. I’ll take pics and post. Any guidance on reading any tell tale signs that I’m not seeing would be great!!

Note: my wife said he was resting on his/her side earlier today when she checked on him, but he was swimming all afternoon(well evening) when I was there for about 30-40 minutes. think they were curious when I was getting water samples.

Also , they have not been taking food since they were over fed a couple
Days ago. They go up to it briefly and just turn away. Im
Just scooping it out after it sits for 5-10 min... leaving it for that time and walking away just Incase they are being shy around me.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Small steps but you know that. You mentioned flashing. Is this still being exhibited? Is it just one or two in a row or in clusters? I know you want to keeps stress down but it sure would be good to get a close look at that fish.

Okay so got him Today, he slipped out while I was trying to get a pic of his other gill, so I only got one. (I’m super gentle lifting those back to get a look, maybe too Carful ?)
Also water tested at 7.8? Which I found odd as my dkh is only 3 and it tested 7.8 last night... pics below.
Noticed allot of blood vessels showing and some darker ones on the dorsal fin and on the left of his head.

He was sleeping on his side when I went to get him, but as usual got up and was quick and feisty when I netted him.

 

[sissy]

could be spawning exhaustion .It looks like a male so not egg bound .As the fish get older they need lots of aeration .In the morning is the worst because plants at night use up oxygen the fish need and during the day they give off oxygen ,Koi need lots of oxygen