Planning a new Pond Project!

[YShahar]

Good morning! Thanks, everyone!

Here is a little before-breakfast info:
My parents are in rural Illinois - in their 80s - both with some health difficulties. My Dad's greatest pleasure is his yard. He loves being outside. I worry sometimes that his determination and stubbornness outweigh his physical abilities -- this is important because I need to make sure this pond is a very manageable size. He will be maintaining it all alone, with no-one to help.

Would your dad by satisfied with a pondless waterfall? It looks like you could just keep the waterfall, and dig out a shallow basin below it, line it, and plop in some upside down milkcrates. I'm guessing the waterfall has a good liner behind it that could be overlapped into whatever basin you build beneath it?

Of course, if he really wants a pond, it would definitely be a bigger job, but maybe not that bad. How hard is the soil to dig there? Is it super rocky, or softer and easier to penetrate with a shovel? Also, are there any local groups, like maybe scout groups or such, that might be willing to pitch in for a day of pond digging?

For the pond itself, you could start at the existing pond, then dig out something fairly shallow into the grassy area and make a small intake bay off to one side. The intake bay doesn't need to be all that large: maybe two or three milkcrates or so. I would think that would be lower maintenance than a skimmer.

Maybe you could incorporate a small bog up behind the falls, with an overflow into the dragon-basin. That would give your dad another place to grow things, and would keep maintenance on the pond down to a minimum.

Looks like it would be doable in a week, especially if the weather is good and all the parts are already on-site. But having help would make it a lot easier! One of those times that I wish I lived closer to you guys!

 

[bagsmom]

Would your dad by satisfied with a pondless waterfall? It looks like you could just keep the waterfall, and dig out a shallow basin below it, line it, and plop in some upside down milkcrates. I'm guessing the waterfall has a good liner behind it that could be overlapped into whatever basin you build beneath it?

Of course, if he really wants a pond, it would definitely be a bigger job, but maybe not that bad. How hard is the soil to dig there? Is it super rocky, or softer and easier to penetrate with a shovel? Also, are there any local groups, like maybe scout groups or such, that might be willing to pitch in for a day of pond digging?

For the pond itself, you could start at the existing pond, then dig out something fairly shallow into the grassy area and make a small intake bay off to one side. The intake bay doesn't need to be all that large: maybe two or three milkcrates or so. I would think that would be lower maintenance than a skimmer.

Maybe you could incorporate a small bog up behind the falls, with an overflow into the dragon-basin. That would give your dad another place to grow things, and would keep maintenance on the pond down to a minimum.

Looks like it would be doable in a week, especially if the weather is good and all the parts are already on-site. But having help would make it a lot easier! One of those times that I wish I lived closer to you guys!

No on the pondless waterfall. He loves the little fish and everything that goes with having a little pond. I think it is doable -- if I can decide what to do. All this would be much easier if the hubby could go with me to do plumbing and electrical. He is so handy, he can do anything! We will see how things turn out.

 

[bagsmom]

Happy to help
Dad's a lucky man.
First questions
how many days will you have
will you have any help
what type of soil does dad have / where is he in the country'
will dad be able to do any maintenance
Photo?
flat yard ?
too flat
water table issues?

No water table issues. I will just be expanding the hole that's already there. Not by too much - but some. I'm thinking I'll have a week or so. Not sure about help - but maybe a couple of burly nephews! My Dad is in rural Illinois. He can do light maintenance. The problem there is that he is a stubborn old-timer with an "of course I can" attitude. Good -- but sometimes dangerous!
I think keeping it smallish and simple will be the key.
His desire to run a pump off solar energy (with batteries to store excess) is really throwing me. I don't think it is a good idea, especially with a bog, which needs to run 24/7. I think I need to work on him about that.

 

[GBBUDD]

Grundfos SQFlex Pre-designed Solar Water Pumping Kit using 6 sqf-3 pump 5gpm, up​

Model: 6sqf-3x4​

Brand:​

Price: $5,288.70​

this pump only pushes 300 gallons per hour for 5k

I did find a solar pump that did i think it was 1300 gph but it has no battery. But you could always do a double sytem where when the solar is done for the day the electric starts up by way of a timer. Theres a reason why why we are all not running solar. because it's very expensive .

If i remember correctly your dads pop was like 8 feet long 4 feet wide with a little water fall? you guys tried and something was leaking ?

that sounds like no more than a 4 k pump at max would be needed if that.

i'd look at your friend Oz pond for motivation . definitely no koi side walls all pitched and use flat rock to lay on the angled side walls and fill with foam between the rocks. No shelves if the ponds only 24 inches deep don't need them but i would make shallow areas outside the main edging for plantings like pitcher plants they add color 3/4 of the year easy to maintain and very cool plants

 

[GBBUDD]

No water table issues. I will just be expanding the hole that's already there. Not by too much - but some. I'm thinking I'll have a week or so. Not sure about help - but maybe a couple of burly nephews! My Dad is in rural Illinois. He can do light maintenance. The problem there is that he is a stubborn old-timer with an "of course I can" attitude. Good -- but sometimes dangerous!
I think keeping it smallish and simple will be the key.
His desire to run a pump off solar energy (with batteries to store excess) is really throwing me. I don't think it is a good idea, especially with a bog, which needs to run 24/7. I think I need to work on him about that.

While a no battery solar pump can push 650 to 1300 for relatively reasonable money 299 to 800

you have the picture of what you built last year?

 

[GBBUDD]

Maybe we should have the first Garden Pond Forum convention and all meet there to help lol.

I'll be in saint charles 21-23 february

 

[GBBUDD]

Yeah if cost is an issue you probably dont want me to come. Of course as a lawyer I need the upfront retainer fee of $5,000 and then it is $500/hr, plus expenses and travel costs. Basically the parents would have to sell their house to pay me, lol.

I'll come dig the hole, but it's only going to be a small pond, lawyers take up a lot of room with the ego's taking up space.

 

[GBBUDD]

Ok, if inhad this to work with this is what i would do.
The red line is where i would remove all the rock . and then lift the liner from the stream falls. trow that stone up onto the area above.
I would remove the preformed as they are way more work than they are worth.
I would then roll the rocks on the left side of the red line up onto the area above . where i imagine theres another line of rocks similar behind you in the picture.
i would order and 10 x 12 epdm 45 100 bucks , and a skimmer https://www.underwaterwarehouse.com/pondbuilder-elite-skimmer-8-in/ 400 bucks
But what i would do to save you time money and possible aggravation unless you are comfortable with cutting the liner and installing the weir to the skimmer . would be to dig the hole/ pond on the purple end so that the liner can be placed and deep enough and wide enough to set the skimmer within the pond. that way there's no cuts no leaks. and it will save you time.

you can see on the skimmer it has Three threaded 2" openings this is where you will run one pipe through for the pump. the other two you simply buy two pvc 2" MALE threaded plugs/ Trow some teflon tape on the thread and screw it in hand tight. because these are inside the pond it does not matter if they leak they are in the pond .
Now the pumbing it's self for the pump it a little tricky but it is simple to do pvc piping.
The pump i would suggest a 2000 gph aquascapes aquasurge pump they come with adapters i forget what i used but i can go out and check latter. one piece you will need is a slip 2" Union , and a slip 2" 90 with a thread male on the other end. This threaded end goes into the skimmer hole with some teflon tape wraped around the male threaded end. THEN YOU USE a piece of 2" pipe and glue that into the slip end of the 90 to a piece of pipe and that goes to one end of the union while the other union goes to the fiting to the pump.
now that fitting on the outside of the skimmer is where you run the plumbing up to your pillway/ dragon i would use the tall budda temple as a way to help hide the plumbing line as it comes up over the edge of the liner again no penetration thus no leak .

I would then roll that large boulder to the left of the budda to hide the piping.

if i was to build this myself i would guesstimate no more than 2 days . 1/2 day running out to get gravel and glues.
have everything else delivered before you get there can help you with a list

a intake bay is nice but its more work i would think than an elderly person would want. cleaning the gravel is no picnick a skimmer has debris net and a mechanical foam/ matala pad to rinse to clean. to give a little removal of debris

 

[YShahar]

OK, so I'd take @GBBUDD's advice on the pump and skimmer. As to the layout, here's one idea that would reuse the existing waterfall, and would require only five or six flat rocks for the edges. All you would need to do is take out the preform, then dig out all around to make a shallow edge coming into the lawn a bit and extending out to the sides. This need only be about 10-20 cm deep, so shouldn't require much digging.

I also like @Gbbud's idea about putting the skimmer inside of the liner to avoid the hassle of cutting out the weir opening. In the design here, I've put the skimmer right in front of the waterfall, so the opening wouldn't be visible from the viewing area, but of course, it could go wherever there's room.

That area at the top of the falls is perfect for a small bog area (I never much liked hydrangeas anyway ;-) ). This could even be done with a large planter sunk into the ground inside the liner, with the plumbing going over the side and down to the bottom. Ozponds has a video or two using that sort of set-up, and I recall someone here on the forum doing something similar.

In the simulation above, I've moved the lantern a bit closer to the pond, as this type of lantern is often used near water. I'm not sure you have it wired, but you could put a little battery-powered candle in there, like the ones Ikea sells. That would look really cool at night!

 

[bagsmom]

@GBBUDD and @YShahar -- Thank you for all these great thoughts!
Yes - the solar is so expensive to get something that functions well. We need to talk about the electrical and figure something out.
I love the idea of putting the skimmer in the liner. If it isn't done the "regular" way - outside the liner and held in by packed soil - how is it held steady and in place and level? Rockwork? I like this idea.

 

[bagsmom]

If you look at the very first "before" picture, you can see the hydrangeas along the fence. We built a low retaining wall there to protect both the fence and the hydrangea. We have to keep that as is, but I think it will be fine if - after dismantling the current waterfall - we move the pond area forward by a couple of feet. I like the idea of a bog made inside a sunken container, within the liner.
I'm still leaning towards a pond kit that comes with the components - waterfall filter could serve as the bog and has a hole made to fit the pipe. Same with a skimmer.
I think between the wonderful brains here on the forum and me refreshing my mind with videos from Ozponds and The Pond Advisor, it will be good!
Thank you and keep the ideas coming!

 

[GBBUDD]

[/QUOTE]I love the idea of putting the skimmer in the liner. If it isn't done the "regular" way - outside the liner and held in by packed soil - how is it held steady and in place and level? Rockwork? I like this idea.
[/QUOTE]
In the beginning your right it can move around but that's what you want. This way you can adjust the skimmer as needed up or down. Plumbing is complete. Once the plumbing is hooked up that alone will hold the skimmer for the most part. A few rocks below the intake weir pushing back on the plumbing.then once your good. Peal the liner and fabric up, back fill around the skimmer on three sides so now your liner and fabric are tight up against the skimmer . The rocks under the weir will keep it from falling in.. you can also make the depth of the pond say 24 inches deep and a pocket for the skimmer to sit down in which I believe would be like 10 inchesdeep as the skimmer i think was 34 inches tall.. Just remember a 24 inch deep pond no fish is safe from the heron or even snowy egret.
The hard part is going to be hiding the plumbing as it will have to come up over the liner and as you know flex pvc is not that flexible. But a few fittings and your good to go. If hubby can't tell you how to use pvc message me I'll give you my phone number and can walk you through it. One thing that will make life much easier is to buy ONLY PRESSURE fittings they have twice the glue area to hold your work together.

 

[Mgessert]

My electric is just an extension cord from an outlet on the back deck, to the pond. It runs the pump and aerators. You could sell this as a temporary fix while your father researches solar setups. My temporary setup has been running for four years.

 

[GBBUDD]

I'm not a fan of preforms at all. They create more work then is a epdm liner. Like how do you have water leave the preform? Cut one edge lower ? This will compromise their stability in a big way. The plastic is like metal the more bends the stronger the plastic is. Cut the rolled edge off and it's no longer that strong.

Try to secure liner to the preform? This will fail its not if, it's when, how long will it last. A preform that's lined could hold the water and have line liner drop at where the waterfall would be.

I know they are pricey but a biofalls would save a lot of time.

 

[GBBUDD]

@YShahar and I are thinking alike as to pond size. I'd keep the pond narrower and longer over wider however. Dad may have a hard time reaching out more than 4 to 6 feet with a net or trying to remove a stick from the pond, or leaves.