Pump comes after filter?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by alex chappelear, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. alex chappelear

    sissy sissy

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    I would guess that the only pumps that pull water would be external if that is what poster is going for and willing to give it a try and use a mechanical filter .
     
    sissy, Feb 13, 2017
    #21
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  2. alex chappelear

    Mucky_Waters

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    Hard to get that lid back on that can of worms you opened eh Meyers?

    Now tell me, are electrons pushed or pulled in an electrical current?

    Actually my understanding of why you want to "push" water through most pumps rather than "suck" it is because of the phenomena of cavitation which can severely reduce it's efficiency and will damage the pump if allowed to go on for long enough.
    However, there are pumps that are designed to "pull" water better than others, they just aren't as efficient at moving water as most pond pumps are so they are seldom used in a pond environment.
     
    Mucky_Waters, Feb 13, 2017
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  3. alex chappelear

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Well, if clarifying a point for the OP before a costly mistake may be made is opening a can of worms then I am guilty and will continue to be guilty in as much as this Forum exists for pondkeepers (present and future) to learn truth from fiction.
    As to whether or not some pumps may be designed to pull is irrelevant to this discussion for, as you say, they are not designed for use in a pond environment.

    BTW: The name is Meyer, not Meyers.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Feb 13, 2017
    #23
  4. alex chappelear

    Mucky_Waters

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    Well, I'm guilty of "pulling" water with a pond pump. Meaning I've run pumps with very little head pressure but with a restricted intake. Probably a lot of people are guilty of this and don't even realize it. Anytime a submersible pump's intake screen starts getting plugged (a very common problem) it has to work harder to pull that water through the restriction and it's going to create more of a vacuum on the intake side of the pump. At some point, when the restriction reaches critical levels, cavitation may start to occur and you'll start to see internal damage to the pump. Fortunately designers anticipate that the pump users will neglect cleaning their pump intake screens and design the pumps to be cavitation resistant, This generally just means not having as close a tolerances between certain areas of the impeller and pump housing, but that also means the pumps will not be as efficient at moving water. So it's a trade off between building a super efficient pump that pumps a lot of water while using very little electricity, or building a very robust pump that can be neglected (not cleaning the intake screen) for long periods of time without damaging itself.

    My mistake,,,, sorry. :facepalm:
     
    Mucky_Waters, Feb 13, 2017
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  5. alex chappelear

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Getting back to Alex's original inquiry..........Given that this will be a 15,000 gallon pond, a single pump will not be adequate. As @Waterbug alluded, as many as three (3) pumps may be required especially if a sieve is to be incorporated into the mechanical filtration. In addition, there is some doubt whether enough space is available to accommodate the size (SSA) gravity-fed filter required to provide sufficient biofiltration for a pond this size.
    There are some design issues that need to be resolved.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Feb 14, 2017
    #25
  6. alex chappelear

    Usman

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    very interesting and no foot valve one way valve in submersible pumps thats needed to lock the flow and pressure while sucking , may b it exists in external ones
     
    Usman, Feb 14, 2017
    #26
  7. alex chappelear

    Waterbug

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    Lot's of pumps are used outside space vehicles and suits.
     
    Waterbug, Mar 13, 2017
    #27
  8. alex chappelear

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Example(s)?
     
    Meyer Jordan, Mar 13, 2017
    #28
  9. alex chappelear

    Becky Administrator

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    This is not relevant to the original question, let's keep things on topic (y)
     
    Becky, Mar 14, 2017
    #29
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  10. alex chappelear

    alex chappelear

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    I think im replying in the right place.

    on these diagrams shouldn't the waterline in the filters be lower than the ponds waterline, how do you know how much lower to make it?

    also shouldn't sieve be before sediment chamber to get stuff out of water before it dissolves? and to people with sieves before their sediment tanks, do you find anything even in your sediment tanks if you have a sieve? if so what size is your microns?

    what is the "balance pipe" for

    why shut down the sieve in winter but keep the other stuff going?
     
    alex chappelear, May 13, 2017
    #30
  11. alex chappelear

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Meyer Jordan, May 13, 2017
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