Question on water change

[MitchM]

I'm willing to bet there is not one person (professional or hobbyist) who breeds fish that doesn't have a water change routine.

The thing about fish breeders is that they will push the limits to maximize the results of breeding.
They look at water changes as a cheap form of filtration, not part of a balanced ecosystem.

Water changes can also induce spawning behaviour depending on the species.

.

 

[MitchM]

The thing is that there are so many different types and sizes of "ponds" We have had folks on this forum set up a storage tote and call it a pond. How long do you think fish could live in a small container like that without water changes before they start to have health issues? When is a pond considered a pond? Is there a certain size or gallons of water? The small water features/ponds are basically an aquarium that is set up outside and labeled a pond because it's outside.
...

I am not someone that considers ponds and aquariums separate.
I see them all as aquatic environments that are affected one way or another by their environment, the pond/storage totes are a starting point, that's it. Not sustainable long term, that for sure.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

They look at water changes as a cheap form of filtration, not part of a balanced ecosystem.

And that is the thing. Inland Aquaculture has been steadily moving towards the current Zero Water Exchange system for some time now as it is not environmentally responsible to dump the waste water from the farming systems, not to mention the permitting and fees attached. With these current systems the only water that is added is to replace that lost to evaporation.

 

[Gemma]

No problem, but don't tell me that water changes are inherently stressful. Agreed?

That^^^ should make everyone happy!

 

[Lisak1]

Just curious what you mean by "has already been accepted" ?

I meant as part of this conversation. We touched on smaller ponds (or totes or aquariums or fish bowls) being in their own category.

No problem, but don't tell me that water changes are inherently stressful. Agreed?

Sure. I don't really know that they ARE stressful so I'll stay away from that argument... although I don't know if anyone in this conversation has really proven that they AREN'T.

But anyway - I just like to put myself out there as someone with a well functioning pond who doesn't do water changes. If all anyone ever reads or hears is the "gotta do it" side, it becomes gospel.

 

[Lisak1]

right now I'm letting the filters cycle and trying to avoid doing major water changes that would slow that down.

OK - now to me there's an argument against water changes. It's not just your filter that cycles - the pond WATER is part of that cycle. When you add water that's not been through that cycle, how are you NOT affecting the balance in your pond?

 

[brokensword]

I'm willing to bet there is not one person (professional or hobbyist) who breeds fish that doesn't have a water change routine.

Well, I don't breed fish (anymore) so maybe my anecdote won't count, but for years now, I change the water in my saltwater aquarium only to get rid of possible nitrate buildup. But that said, I don't have any mechanical filtration, just what lives in the aquarium on the live rock. And even in the above water change, I do it probably every 2 months or so, about 30% change. But in doing so, I'm also replenishing any trace elements the fish/crustaceans use for growth.

 

[audioenvy]

I can state UNEQUIVOCALLY that professional koi keepers do constant water changes. Even the mud ponds have flow through. Whether or not there is any science behind it (they believe it removes pheromones from the water that would otherwise slow growth), the fact is that they do it. And they do it a LOT. As much as 10% per day.

Is such a practice necessary for a small garden pond with relatively small fish load? Probably not--but I just want to make sure we're not trying to apply one situation to all situations.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Even the mud ponds have flow through.

Could you furnish a link to support this. I have never seen flow through mentioned being associated with breeders' mud ponds.

Yes Professional Koi Keepers do perform water changes on a regular basis. This has never been in dispute. The nature of a DKP pretty much mandates that they be done unless other means are utilized to deal with excess Nitrate and toxins.

 

[audioenvy]

Could you furnish a link to support this. I have never seen flow through mentioned being associated with breeders' mud ponds.

The 40 second mark specifically, but the first few minutes talk about water changes.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Which article are you referring to?

The one you yourself posted a link to to support no water change necessary stance.
http://pets.thenest.com/goldfish-need-tank-filtered-water-12107.html
This is the entire paragraph ...
Filter Considerations
"The filter should be able to cycle the water volume of the tank 10 times an hour. For example, a 10-gallon goldfish tank needs a filter that will cycle at least 100 gallons every hour, regardless of filter design. Also, even with a filter installed, it is necessary to perform weekly water changes to maintain cleanliness and pH balance. For tanks or bowls that hold less than 10 gallons, change about 25 percent of the water by removing and replacing it. For tanks larger than 10 gallons, change about 15 percent of the water each week."

 

[Magzire]

The 40 second mark specifically, but the first few minutes talk about water changes.

The guru has spoken, 15% each day. Case close.
/End thread

 

[audioenvy]

The guru has spoken, 15% each day. Case close.
/End thread

Hahaha! Again, Andy doesn't deal with garden ponds so it's apples to oranges but he does talk about the importance of inflow into mud ponds where the whole point is rapid fish growth.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The 40 second mark specifically, but the first few minutes talk about water changes.

Do you have any other links. I have seen this video before. He also believes in the 'mythical' anti-growth pheromone.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The one you yourself posted a link to to support no water change necessary stance.
http://pets.thenest.com/goldfish-need-tank-filtered-water-12107.html
This is the entire paragraph ...
Filter Considerations
"The filter should be able to cycle the water volume of the tank 10 times an hour. For example, a 10-gallon goldfish tank needs a filter that will cycle at least 100 gallons every hour, regardless of filter design. Also, even with a filter installed, it is necessary to perform weekly water changes to maintain cleanliness and pH balance. For tanks or bowls that hold less than 10 gallons, change about 25 percent of the water by removing and replacing it. For tanks larger than 10 gallons, change about 15 percent of the water each week."

Yes the article does state all of that. I posted the link specifically because it addressed the life span of a Goldfish in a bowl with or without water changes.

Here is my statement that accompanied the link.
"And they don't live very long either even with water changes. Stress related maybe?"