Remedying My Pond Architecture

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Hey Mucky_Waters. I guess I don't know what a small removable skimmer is. Can you fill me in? I assume it is something you can buy, correct? Not just a DIY thing? Why kind did you have and what would you recommend? Here's hoping you got a simple solution for me and can recommend a specific brand or model. I'm really ready to be done with that foam problem!!

By the way, I had to create an album to add a photo to it. And when I go into My Media and double-click on it, i get the message: Added to Editor. But I still don't see it... only something in brackets that says sharedmedia = gallery images. etc. Hopefully that will turn into a photo of my pond when i post this. I think the layout is great aesthetically speaking and the black rubber liner doesn't show at all. But waiting to here what Waterbug meant by terrible design.

Thanks,
djo



https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/1764-backyard-creek-and-pond-from-deck-foamy/
 
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So regarding the Cal Skimmer, excuse my ignorance, but you are supposed to put your pump in that portable skimmer box right? Then you hang the skimmer box from something, like in my case my deck, so that the opening of the skimmer box is half below the water? And that way the pump sucks water from the top of the pond? If this is how it should be installed, how much below the level of the water should the pump be? How did you set yours up?

And what happened to Waterbug? I'd like to know what he thinks of this solution, and also get his more detailed critique of my pond design. I guess he resting after those long and generous posts from the last couple of days.

By the way, I found out from my pond guy this morning that the pump he installed was a 4100 gph pump, not a 3300 gph pump. He had forgotten himself what he installed and had given my the wrong information previously. The pump model is Alpine Hurricane 4100. So I definitely need to split the UV off from the main flow to get it to work.

djo
 

addy1

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I used a pool skimmer, hayward, it works great for pulling junk off the surface, when the leaves, flower and maple seeds are falling. Mine is plumbed to an external pump with a ball valve to control how much draw the skimmer has going to it.
 
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Mucky,
Please Dan, tell us what you see as being so sub-standard in regards to this particular stream and pond.
1. It's a necklace pond.
2. Distance from the top of the rock edge to the water surface is great. Not sure why but that's an amature feature.
3. Poor rock work. It's meant to look natural and it isn't. Mostly due to the choice of rock. We call it rip-rap here.
4. No landscaping. A professtional would include some landscape only because it's a cheap quick way to wow the client. The later pictures with landscaping do look better. I hadn't seen those pictures yet. Doesn't change my opinion.

As I said, this wasn't meant as an insult, just as a way to evaluate the pond builder and whether to keep pouring money into this builder or find another. It's a find looking pond if that's what the customer wants and the customer seems really happy with the look, so super. But in evaluating the professionalism and experience level when I see a pond like this my guess...and it's only a guess...is this builder has no license and has built fewer than 10 ponds. I could be completely wrong. Maybe he's built hundreds of ponds. Maybe he's the best pond builder ever. I'm going by a single picture (originally).

If djoliver built this pond himself I'd say it was a great pond. If a $10/hr dude was hired I'd say great pond. To me, when someone charges $55/hr I expect a professional. I assume the pond wasn't built by the hour, but still, had to be in the $3000 to $5000 range. I'd expect a well made pond.

But hey, it's a free world and I say charge whatever the market will pay. I felt like giving dj my opinion on whether to keep paying this person. My guess is he's a big boy and can make up his own mind. Sure isn't my time, money or stress.

djoliver, I understand now. You just want to enjoy the pond.

Back in the day when I hired myself out I fixed ponds like these. For a pond like yours I would charge $300-500 to clean a pond, payable only when the pond was clear which was defined by being able to see the bottom. I provided no guarantee the pond would stay clear, this was a one time cleaning. Normally took about a week and 3 trips on site. I didn't explain what I was going to do unless asked and then I gave a very simple answer because most clients (99%) didn't really want the details. They just wanted a sentence they could repeat to friends and family. That was totally OK with me, I understood.

For ponds I built and maintained I would guarantee clear for as long as I maintained it. I charged a lot. Most jobs went to other, cheaper, people, which was OK with me. I'm a software engineer, which I enjoy just as much and it pays better. Ponds are a hobby. When my yard was filled I had to build in other people's yards.

From this I learned there's 2 kinds of pond owners. Those into the DIY, learning aspect and those wanting to pay for a water feature to enjoy. Both are fine people and there's nothing wrong with either group. Just like some people like to build their own houses while most people would rather buy one already built.

IMO you hired a poor builder. Now you're looking for that easy to do fix. Trying to straddle both worlds is difficult and frustrating.

My suggestion is to spend your time looking for another pond builder / maintainer. That's a lot of work in and of itself. Cut your losses. You now know a lot more of what to look for. Licensed? Good references? Years building ponds? Guarantee work?

I know you still want to find the easy fix and hopefully someone here will provide one. Skippy filter, bog, barley straw, magnets,more plants, less plants, etc. There are hundreds of pond "solutions" around the net. Or you could sit back and one day next week the pond will suddenly be clear...they can do that and it isn't uncommon.

On a different subject... I want to thank you. I've always been puzzled by the dynamic of why people post questions, the kinds of answers they get, and how they pick which answers to try. The other day, thanks to this thread and many others across many forums on different subjects over many years, I finally gained an understanding of the social dynamics of forums. I also had just watched The Social Network, which helped too. The details are boring but I did want to say thank you, even if you're only the proxy for all those other posts over the years. This has been very valuable to me. Good luck with your pond.
 

addy1

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I have not read all the verbiage of this thread, just your beginning post and skimmed the rest.

The issues you are having are fixable. If you put in some time, some diy work. I would not buy an expensive filter, the skippy style filters in the diy section of this forum work great. Get your self a good tub, barrel something you can use to create your filter, follow along on the instructions. You will be happy with the results. If you need help there are a lot on this forum that can help you with your build. Put one at the top of your stream, you could probably hide it well up there, by your picture it appears you have a mound, height you could put it behind, even if not real high you could put it there and hide via plants, rocks etc.

One reason to keep your pump off the bottom of the pond, is if something goes wrong you don't want to suck the pond dry.

If you want a skimmer to help remove stuff from the surface of the pond, there are retrofit skimmers you can install with some minor plumbing.

If you don't like the rock look of the build, add some plants, extend the rocks out into the yard, it blends the stream and pond in nicely.

I have plants in my pond, lots of plants, lilies, iris, rush, four leaf clover. Do not have any issues with string algae hanging all over the plants. My water is clear, the water tests all last summer were perfect. No green water syndrome ie small floating algae.
So I disagree with waterbug on keeping plants out of your pond.

This is viewing via the underwater camera, across about 20 feet of water at the far pond wall, pond with tons of plants, bog filter, fish, frogs, etc.

CH03_2011_11_04_08_27_33.jpg
CH02_2011_09_20_17_59_50.jpg
 
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Thanks Addy1. Nice fish, by the way. Any of those links show your pond from above?

Waterbug, yesterday I bought a 7 foot long 1 inch diameter hemp rope from an army navy surplus store with the thought that today would be my first attempt to try to do something about that foam besides just throw some chemicals at it, which was a waste of time, money and a miserable failure. So today I put on some waders and hopped into the pond. I was surprised to see it was over my waist in some places. Anyway,I installed the rope and first thing I found out was it doesn't float. So my wife found an old styrofoam noodle in the back of a closet that my kids used to play with in the local swimming pool about 10 years ago. I cut it up to make floaters for the rope and re-installed it. Low and behold, it contained the foam and the rest of the pond was suddenly rescued from the foam plague!! I also gave the pond its first dose of MicroLift PL, which I'm hopeful will get some good bacterial action going in the system. Great progress today. Thanks for that tip about the hemp rope. It was surely the easy fix and I'm so thankful for your suggestion. I may come up with a better fix later on, but what a relief to finally look at the pond and not think it looked like waste water plant. That, by the way, is what I come to these forums for -- looking for solutions to problems I didn't expect to have.

Since I found out that my 3300 gph pump was really a 4100 gph pump, I'm optimistic that your suggested architecture for slowing down the water will set up the UV filter properly and my green water will be gone a few days later. At the same time, I'll add the skimmer box to keep the surface of the pond clean and I should be able to really begin to enjoy the pond. The 5 large koi that I've got are really pretty impressive. One of them regularly jumps clear out of the water. I guess the next task will be to get some kind of bio-filter going to handle the waste from these fish. So I'll check out the links you posted for what may be better than a skippy filter and make some decisions on what to do for that.

Anyway, I know why I post in this forum. I'm not sure why you do, but I'm glad you do and hope you continue to do so. Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this discussion. I appreciate the tips and encouragement. Yeah, under different circumstances I'd probably just pay someone to take care of the pond and the landscaping for me, if I was rich and I wasn't such a cheapskate! But today my wife and I had a nice time putzing around the yard planting stuff so it may turn into a nice hobby for us after all.
 

addy1

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It would be nice to be rich and have someone do all the work, but I do get such pleasure doing the work myself.

Both the bottom two links show the build, even some shots from the roof.

These are from last year. The slope from the house down to the pond is a 25degree if not more slope, it was a real pita to mow when we first moved here, kept sliding off into the apple trees. Therefore plants, stream and pond took over.

DSC01700.jpg


DSC01593.jpg


This shot is this year, right after I bottom cleaned, so the water is a little murky. The depth is 5 feet.

tritail2.jpg
 
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Very nice. Looks like you've got a stream meandering down to the pond. How long is that? Overall size of the layout is impressive too. I'm sure that keeps you busy on weekends.

Maybe you can tell me in general the set up for a skimmer filter box. You mentioned you generally don't want the pump sitting on the bottom of the pond, so that if something springs a leak you don't pump all the water out of the pond and kill the fish. So if you don't have a skimmer filter built into the pond, I assume one alternative is to put your pump in one of these portable skimmer boxes they make and set it so the pump is completely underwater, but the lower edge of the opening the water comes into the box through is only slightly underwater, so that you pull only the top layer of pond water into the pump. Is that correct? What are the guidelines for setting these up. How far below water level should the pump and the bottom of the box opening be, for example?
 

j.w

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Addy your photo's make me wish I had a hill like that to make a nice flowing stream down to a pond. And all that landscaping looks so gorgeous every time I see it! Gosh those photo's are so pretty!
 

addy1

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Very nice. Looks like you've got a stream meandering down to the pond. How long is that? Overall size of the layout is impressive too. I'm sure that keeps you busy on weekends.

Maybe you can tell me in general the set up for a skimmer filter box. You mentioned you generally don't want the pump sitting on the bottom of the pond, so that if something springs a leak you don't pump all the water out of the pond and kill the fish. So if you don't have a skimmer filter built into the pond, I assume one alternative is to put your pump in one of these portable skimmer boxes they make and set it so the pump is completely underwater, but the lower edge of the opening the water comes into the box through is only slightly underwater, so that you pull only the top layer of pond water into the pump. Is that correct? What are the guidelines for setting these up. How far below water level should the pump and the bottom of the box opening be, for example?

The steam is around 85 feet long, we made switch backs so it would not just rush down the hill. In each leg of the stream are deeper areas to hold water when we turn it off. At each turn is a small pond (largest is around 8x8ft) in each of those ponds are tons of plants. The slope near the house is around 25 degrees, was horrible to mow, slid off many times into the apple trees. The pond, is about 40 feet down the slope, but it is neat we can look out the window and see the fish. We have around 4 acres of land, the woods you can see, we don't groom, there is a dry stream bed that gets flowing pretty good during rain storms. We leave the woods for critters.
This was before
backyard3.jpg

The pond ended up about where that white and red striped stick
P3042365.jpg

My liner was 40 x 57 for the pond and bog, used it all except a small trim. The stream liner was 85 x 9 used the whole length did trim some of the width.

My skimmer is not a filter box, it is just like a pool skimmer the water is drawn through it, through a leaf basket, to the pump which also has a leaf basket on it.
My arizona pond had a skimmer that I hung over the side of the pond, it was not cut into the liner, it worked great. Was a retrofit skimmer. Plumbed to an external pump. I use externals, others use the submersibles and place them in the skimmer box.

When you install a skimmer you usually have the water come half way up the weir, which is about 1/2 way up the opening. Someone that uses the skimmer box with a pump will have to help you on installing it.

Here is a link on how to do it

http://www.relaxingd...mer_install.htm

here is a u tube

https://www.youtube....h?v=T-TNUhQFQOo
 
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I wanted to add a positive development to this conversation. I followed up on one of Waterbug's suggestions for remedying the foam that was spreading across my pond -- a 1 inch hemp rope around the waterfall to contain the foam. Here's a photo.



https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gal...-floaters-contains-the-foam-around-waterfall/



The 1 inch hemp rope wouldn't float on its own, so I added some floaters by cutting up one of those foam noddles the kids used to play with at the swimming pool. It does a great job containing the foam, so it doesn't spread across the pond. It doesn't seem to build up too much under the waterfall either. So it really solved the problem. But it isn't really very aesthetic, so I consider it a temporary solution until I get a skimmer going. I think the commercial skimmers are really overpriced -- a bucket with a hole in it for $500 -- so I might try to construct one myself.
 

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Very neat idea on the rope and swim tube floaters. Does just what you need it to do and it doesn't look so bad!
 

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