Rocks on the bottom?

[Nova]

I thought I would move this question here instead of the Aquatic Plant discussions.

My filter system is not working that well. Funny how my pond last year was crystal clear although I was fighting string algae. This year the pond was upgraded from a 550 gal pump/fountain, inside a small box with sponge filter and bio balls with a 9 watt uv light...to a savio skimmer, 2550 gph pump,18 watt uv light, 2500 gal pressurized filter and waterfall. The water is cloudy and green.

I wonder if it is from not having rocks on the bottom of the pond as I did last year. They may have helped keep down all the debris instead of having the fish sweeping it up as the swim around the pond.

The pond at school has about 2 inches of white decorative stones. When the pond water because crystal clear after adding better filtration, mostly filter material around the pump, the stone are clearly seen. The pond was built almost 5 years ago. I sucked out the muck on the bottom a couple years ago other than that no cleaning. Other than leaves that collect on the bottom and removed there is no build up of fish poo or debris.

Is it possible for a pond to create a balance with the muck on the bottom between the stones? Is there enough good bacteria in the muck to keep it at a constant level, as I am seeing in the school pond?

When I first built my pond last year, I was told to put stones on the bottom because it creates places for good bacteria to grow and thrive. I know most here think it is not healthy for the pond but after observing the pond at school and how my pond is now looking I am thinking of putting stones on the bottom and see if that makes a difference.

Does anyone here have stone on the bottom? If so, do you have issues with water not staying clear?

 

[sissy]

Iused to have stones on the bottom but with koi the water stunk really bad and the stones were slimy and under them was gunk .Not sure if it was good stuff or bad but suspect because of the smell it was bad .I never had a problem with my water looking clear ,it was just the smell .If we got heavy rains the water would get really dirty and cloudy and thats when I decided out they go .I do get the fish stirring some of it up on the bottom but the filter picks it up .I try to use a long net and pull it slowly along the bottom to get some of it .If that doesn't work then I get the handy shop vac .I put a net around the end to keep the fish safe and attach a hose to the outlet and put a laundry basket in the falls with the outlet hose going into that ,The laundry basket has quilt batting in it .Takes about 10 minutes to clean the bottom of my pond .I have heard on this sight some use a pump and vacuum the bottom with that .

 

[addy1]

The water really stinks due to the anaerobic bacteria, that builds up in the rocks. I had rocks once, and it did stink when I finally pulled them out.

 

[koiguy1969]

rocks on bottom....NOT a good idea. trapping fish waste, dead plant matter, and any other decaying organic matter is not good for the pond or fish.
as ady said.. the smell is hydrogen sulphide..a byproduct of anaerobic (low to no oxygen bacteria) bacteria breaking down organic wastes..(rotten egg odor, its the same gas they add to natural gas so you can smell it)

 

[KennethO]

Hello. There are a few things to look at. What are your nitrate readings. How are you oxygenating the water?

Most filters come with under preforming budget media. You may need to add a finer media to catch the "fines". Uv's clump the alge together so it can be caught in the filter media. If your media is to course then it will not preform as well. You can purchase some quilt batting and place it after the uv to catch more.

Rocks will not cause the issues you are having. To get rid of alge you have to do a few things. Reduce high nitrates, reduce sun light, finer filter with uv or add a bubbler. Sometimes adding something as simple as an air stone or venturi can stop the alge.

 

[sissy]

wanted to show this it has been months like this to show lava rock working no additives .Notice the black tub clear water notice the white thing green .Not sure if it's the lava rock .I have lava rock filters.These where taken today at 7 am here 06/25/11

 

[koidaddy]

Lava rock are good for bacteris groth sissy, especially if you filter the solids out first so they dont clog as easy. This was used for years before the bio media craze hit.
As far as rocks on the bottom, not a good idea. If you think you must have them do a shallow side area for the rocks(8-12"), but never on the bottom. Over time the liner looks as natural as it can eith the growth on it. Koi do root around in them so I am going to add something like that on my next rebuild. It just needs to be covered from predators.

 

[sissy]

I put lava rock around my pump in that green tote and notice tote is clean and been like that for month's now because I have not touched it .I have lava rock in my planters in my pond also .I use pea gravel then a large top dressing of lava rock .I don't understand why the lava rock gets such a bad rap .I understand it's weight has some to do with that .But everything has some amount of weight to it .I have to get a better pic of it .I have lava rock in the planter in my waterfall also

 

[sissy]

Well remember I did take it out for the rebuild but only to put it in the storage tank I had to house the fish until I got the new liner in .I then just added new water and the old water back and put that tote from the tank back into the pond .I did not want to clean anything because it had good stuff in it I knew I needed

 

[Nova]

The pond at school and my pond last year never had any smell. There was a smell when we drained the pond and started taking the rocks out but if left alone they were fine. The ph, nitrate, nitrites, ammonia and all that are fine.

I have put quilt batting over the filters in the skimmer but does not seem to help a lot. I do have to clean them every day. I was hoping once I got rid of the small filter I wouldn't have to do as much maintenance but it seems I have just as much if not more. Perhaps, simpler is better.

I love my pond and waterfall but the little things you fine out after you build one that I didn't know about. Needing planter rings to keep your floating plants from entering the skimmer as well as, feeder rings for the same reason. Unless you sit and feed the fish a little at a time so the eat it before the skimmer gets it. Which I do once in a while. The skimmer is nice to suck up all the spring pollen, floating algae and occasional leaves.

I am just having a hard time keeping the water as clear as it was last year.

 

[koidaddy]

Its all a learning process on what works. I broke the #1 cardinal rule of digging the hole first and then doing a google search.LOL #2 was rocks on the bottom. My pond is a work in progress, I call it my test pond because I have learned plenty in 5 years but am still figuring it out. Trial and error. When we move in the next year I will have it down....I hope.

 

[sissy]

Thats the thing when those rocks were desturbed you had that smell and over time it would have polluted the water so bad all the fish would have died .But I have seen ponds to be honest that have rocks on the bottom ,but have also asked why do they look clean and there answer is we only feed the fish once a month and we use a pond vac .Even one told me I don't know a company comes in once a month and does it I just enjoy it .I don't have a skimmer never did ,I know how they work but never felt I needed one .I have used lava rock a long time and just use a folded layer of quilt batting on the top .At first I was cleaning it once a day but now it is once a week .I have to many koi and to big at that and pond to small for them now ,but still added 2 waterfalls and 2 filters and I feel the joy I get from it worth the little extra work involved .I love my pond would like bigger but not the extra work involved .If I could afford it would go with company that maintains the pond and I get the enjoyment .But then again would I like how they did it or just get fed up with them and do it myself again .never know I guess never will

 

[sissy]

koidaddy LOL you never get it down .It is constant learning and new things that others know that we have not meant but know more stuff than we could ever even think of .I have seen farm ponds here crystal clear and others mucky as heck .I have learned nothing but need to learn a lot more is my motto .

 

[Nova]

The pond at school is only 5' x 6' with a one foot and 20" sections. It is 5 years old and so far no problems. The fish are fed 3-5 days a week when school is in session and maybe 3 times a week during the summer.

 

[Koilady]

Hi Nova. I know what you're going through but the worst possible thing to do to a pond, especially if you want to keep Koi and Goldfish is to put any type of stone or gravel at the bottom of your pond. Normally, the pond starts to turn bad in the second or third year and the stones and/or gravel should be removed from the bottom of the pond to clean it out and then they can be replaced.

Anyone who has had stones and/or gravel at the bottom of their pond can tell you how smelly it is when the gravel or stone is moved around. Uneaten fish food, fish faeces, any debris that falls into the pond that hasn't been noticed will eventually cover the gravel which can cause the good bacteria to be smothered and then die.

The answer is a good bio-filter. The one we use never has to be cleaned, only backwashed every month or six weeks. The only thing that needs to be cleaned is the window screening at the top of the filter.

If anyone is interested I can send you a copy of the diagram of this filter along with step by step pictures.

When we had our ponds running and we used the upflow bio-filter it took me almost all day to clean them but with this filter, it is so much easier and takes so little time.

Filters that have to be cleaned every few weeks are only mechanical because the sludge that collects on the bio-media starves the good bacteria of oxygen and it dies, creating carbon dioxide to be emitted into the pond, polluting it. U.V. lights and barley straw are quick fixes but don't address the real problem of a pond that is not in balance.

Yours Koily, Lorraine