"RULES OF THUMB" FOR WATERFALLS , STREAMS?

[Mmathis]

As soon as I can move my iPhone pics over, got to show you guys ( or y'all) what I did this evening! Bought some modeling clay and built a tiny little mock-up of what I think my future "turtle pond" should look like! It's so cute and in 3-D, though I can assure you it's NOT to scale

Anyway, that brought up yet another question: are there any "rules" [for aesthetics purposes or based on physic] about how high, long, or deep either a waterfall or stream should be? My little mock-up is just adorable, but in reality I won't have a whole lot of [front-to-back] room to accommodate much depth, and I was kinda hoping to have more of a double stream coming down rather that a "fall." Hope that makes sense. I might end up constructing a cement faux-rock facade with channels for the stream to follow.

I realize that so much of this is based on personal preference, but have also read enough to know that there are just some things that WON'T work no matter how much you want them to ....

 

[Catfishnut]

Good morning M,

I don't know about any "rules" exactly, but I have some ideas/thoughts.

First, I think a waterfall can be of any height or width. It can be a straight vertical fall or a cascading series of small running falls or even rapids.

Second, I don't think you would want a stream to have too little gradient and be too shallow and narrow. This might lead to the water overflowing your stream banks before the water reaches the pond. Nor would you want a stream to have too much gradient and be too deep and wide. Here, most of the stream bed you create might be constantly dry and all the water runs right down the very center and it would run fast.

I think that duplicating nature's own design would be the best idea. I spent quite a bit of time camping in the mountains and surveying streams and rivers with my friend (it was his job, my vacations). I have a vision of the small rivers, streams and brooks and waterfalls that I witnessed from many of the western states. I see multiple, short, cascading waterfalls in varying widths with side pools and plunge pools and short, meandering sections of streams in between. Large chunks of loose rock (real rock) in the middle of the streams, protruding out of the water, gravel bars and slow areas with vegetation.

A winding path for the stream and falls could produce more visual scenery in a limited space. Might prove to really accentuate the whole atmosphere.

Gordy

 

[addy1]

My meandering down the slope stream, is at least 10 inches deep, with deeper collecting pools dug in here and there in the straight legs of the stream. Where the stream turns the corners I have even deeper pools that collect water that then waterfalls down into the small ponds (usually 8x8x2 feet) Part of my problem was our slope, had to dig into the high side quite a bit to make the lower side of the slope deep enough to hold water. Then ended up with high dirt banks on the high side that needed to be hidden ......lol

The width is from 1 foot to 2 feet. By the time you put in the liner, padding, rocks to hide the liner it shrinks down in size. I used multiple sizes of rocks, from gravel to boulders in the stream.

 

[Mmathis]

GORDY -- I'm jealous! I'm a [female] Boy Scout leader and OA [Order of the Arrow] member. Don't have lots of nice streams & waterfalls around here Too flat

ADDY -- I'm jealous! No slopes Also, no Kubota LOL!

My hubby said my cute little mock-up reminded him of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS! Hmmm, don't give me ideas... I might end up with an " alien" theme instead of DISNEY (Mickey Mouse shape -- BIG DISNEY fan!).

Sorry for going off-topic! Couldn't resist a little morning humor

 

[fishin4cars]

Not really a rule of thumb but for pleasure of the eye and for a sense of natural look, I would say at a minimum make the length of the stream bed about two to three times as long as the drop in the fall. For example if where the water fall starts is 18" of head from the surface of the pond, the 36"-48" won't look bad at all. (shorter doesn't look right, example; 3' drop then traveling two or three feet)(( looked goofy and not pleasing at all)) Be sure and build up the sides good on the stream, I didn't take into consideraation that plants and algae would grow in the stream bed and now when they do they reduce the flow and once in a while I get back water that seeps over the stream banks, It's happened to me a few times!

But think about the straight drop water fall as well, Lowes sells a LED lit water fall wier that's clear and lights up at night, coming from the ears on both sides and dropping straight down in the pond might give a cool effect, In fact, planting the ears (bog garden?) with something that would produce big leaves, (Right off hand I'm picturing black Magic taro's and Micky Mouse Taro's mixed, the the water drop down through a lit water fall drop directly in the pond, have the pond one deep hole in the middle for depth, a deep 2.5'-3' plant shelf at the chin area (making a smile on Mickey's face, lol) and hide a skimmer at the center of the smile (would be like where a tounge would be sticky out, Just using that as a reference point). Then when you walk out Mickey would always be smiling to start or end the day. I wish I was a little closer, I think I could have serious fun in designing a Mickey Mouse pond for the boxies! I wish I knew how to do those drawings that you can post! where it's drawn out landscape picture.

 

[Catfishnut]

M,

Well, we won't start to worry until you start making ponds and waterfalls with your potatoes and gravy, eh? LOL

I don't have any pictures that I can upload. Most all my pix are non-digital. But I found a few examples on google.
Just some scenery to look at and get a few ideas.

Gordy

 

[Mmathis]

FISHIN -- like your ideas! At this point, who cares about the turtles! LOL!

GORDY -- thanks for the pics. I'm very visually oriented.

 

[HARO]

Larkin; I've seen some Mickey Mouse ponds in my day, but never litteraly!
John

 

[Waterbug]

The only technical thing I know about waterfall design is that glass sheet falls are thought to put more O2 into the water.

After that it's personal taste. There are ways to get certain sounds like lower bass or higher pitched. Sometimes people like to be able to control volume.

Pools can be cool looking and then later some people don't like them because they collect algae. Depends on the person, some people like the algae. Depends on the setup, some streams have easy access, some are a pain.

I think the split stream concept has to be the #1 request for new ponds after waterfalls. The results are rarely are what the owner had in mind because it's pretty hard to pull off. Technically of course it's very easy...put a couple big rocks in the middle of the stream and you have a split stream. I think what people are really after, but can rarely vocalize, is an island. And the best way to do that is with a plant, trees being best. Sticking a water plant in there just isn't the same effect. A plant like Impatiens can work for small island and if the size of the plant is controlled. Some plants people see and think, that's a land plant, so that's an island. This type of design requires more room and water than I think most people think.

Split streams are also a little tricky to get the amount of water you want in both streams. They can be more prone to leaks just because 2 is more than 1.

Models are a great tool. Can't wait to see the pictures.

 

[Mmathis]

Waterbug, [and anyone else reading] where I'm going at this planning stage is the length & height thing like FISHIN mentioned. Unfortunately, while I do have space to work with, there are limitations. The overall size I'll need JUST for the pond is intimidating once I get that tape measure out to SEE what X feet x X feet is actually going to look like! Whew! So was wanting an idea as to how I can fit my fall or stream into the plans. Now, @ the DISNEY parks they use "forced perspective" to fool your eye into thinking the buildings are bigger/taller than they are. Kinda don't see that working where WATER is concerned! Darn, 'cause I could make something awesome if I could "shrink" the water!

Guess once I figure out what I have to work with and how I can play with "the rules," I'll have a better grip on what my feature will look like & what it can do.

Hey, what about a little log-boat -- I could make SPLASH MOUNTAIN! Zip-a-dee-do-dah! It's my "laughing place!"

 

[Catfishnut]

M,

How much area do you actually have to work with (LxW + H)? Will you be restricted to the area you originally outlined for the fish/turtle habitat area, or can you go outside that box?
Gordy

 

[addy1]

Take a garden hose or large diameter rope and lay out the outline of your pond, the stream etc. It helps you get a good visual of the area it will take.

 

[Waterbug]

If you're looking for the most common DIY style I'd say it has to be a pile of rocks about 3' high and 5' stream/falls into pond ringed by rocks. I wouldn't call that a design, just a style. It easy and a person has to start somewhere. I think it feels like a safer choice.

If you want natural there is a design principle I subscribe to which is falls OR stream, for the most part. Most pond owners want both...they want everything. A pile of rocks with water coming out the top...about as unnatural as you can get. Sticking the falls in the corner or against a wall only helps a little. Adding mass is really the trick, don't focus just on the water. And plants are your best friend. Plants long the ridge of hill which the falls or stream comes out is much better imo at hiding the fact that it's just a little hill. And with a massive hill, wide vs high, you have more options for the stream path.

I also think it's common to get a little wild on the height of a stream or even a falls. Most streams in nature have very little actual drop. Drop is certainly not needed to make a stream flow. I'm talking about most flat yards, not where the landscape already has a slope. In that case there's a lot less to fake.

"forced perspective" to fool your eye into thinking the buildings are bigger/taller than they are. Kinda don't see that working where WATER is concerned!

Sure you can. From the top basin you plumb a pipe under the rock into the bottom of each pool. The pipe to each pool has a ball valve so each falls coming out of the pool is larger than the previous. Each falls really has to be a glass sheet so the increased volume is clear. Splashing falls don't work as well. You also have to do all the other tricks as well with sizes of rocks and plants as well as colors. It doesn't work too well for backyard ponds because you really need to control the viewing angle and most importantly the distance. Plus it has to be a pretty big structure. Hard to fool people with a 5' falls.

More common to just miniaturize the entire design. People like that, the closer you get the better it looks, interesting from lots of angles. Then you can leave it to peoples' imagination as to whether they see a miniature or full scale from a distance. I don't know why there is more miniature ponds...and I think I just talked myself into my next pond. I'm going to Google miniature ponds and see what turns up.

 

[Catfishnut]

"Most streams in nature have very little actual drop. Drop is certainly not needed to make a stream flow. I'm talking about most flat yards, not where the landscape already has a slope. In that case there's a lot less to fake. "

"More common to just miniaturize the entire design. People like that, the closer you get the better it looks, interesting from lots of angles. Then you can leave it to peoples' imagination as to whether they see a miniature or full scale from a distance. I don't know why there is more miniature ponds...and I think I just talked myself into my next pond. I'm going to Google miniature ponds and see what turns up.

My sentiments precisely. With an added notation here... If you have the rocks, the plants and the time and the imagination, you don't really need to plan it all out on paper. Just get the main terrain and elevation set so that the water actually flows downhill, then just start playing in the mud! Just have fun with it and put a rock here and admire it, then add another one and keep on building!

Here is something that I am sure everyone will enjoy, just to look at it all. I know that it is not pond related, but it is fabulous! Click on a photo in the album, then when that phot appears to the right, slide your mouse cursor over the larger image and an option panel to change the size will pop up. Select the largest viewpoint and take a look!

Browse the photos and then I will let you in on a secret.

http://elginpark.smu...809002693_VNe7n

Gordy

 

[chmotz]

What about gravel and rocks at the bottom of the pond.I have read several pond sites not to put those in there due to ? cleaning.I'm about ready to put my liner in any thoughts ? I plan to stock only goldfish. Now i've also heard/read on some sites never to feed them again...any thoughts??