sick fish!

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by babyblue86, Jul 27, 2012.

  1. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    Are they all koi?
     
    Fishylove, Jul 27, 2012
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  2. babyblue86

    babyblue86

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    ok i see what you did. you have your water falling down over your filter media befor it gets to your pump entirely. so do you clean that media often? and do you have a second pump to pump the pond or just let if overflow out of your bio filter?
     
    babyblue86, Jul 27, 2012
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  3. babyblue86

    babyblue86

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    yes they are all koi except one goldfish i have a soft spot for. he was part of the first testing trio when i got my pond. and the little sucker was fearless when it came to eating so i had to keep him
     
    babyblue86, Jul 27, 2012
    #23
  4. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    I'm not sure what type of filter it is your using, is it a trickle filter or pressurized? Unless it's pressurized there would be no need for a valve between the filters. Another question, are both filters going to your bio?
     
    Fishylove, Jul 27, 2012
    #24
  5. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    Awww. I have two goodies too, my daughter won them at a fair lol. No It's the opposite the up flow is fed first from the pre filter then to the water fall and then an overflow pipe directly into the pond. So pre filter - bio filter - waterfall/ pond :) I clean the pad and screen on the pre filter about once a week, sometimes a bit longer. But my water is always clear.
     
    Fishylove, Jul 27, 2012
    #25
  6. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    My waterfall has an urn on the top where the water comes out and it also has bio material in it.
     
    Fishylove, Jul 27, 2012
    #26
  7. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    I'm afraid that with a 1000 gal pond, you probably have too many koi :( Koi are ammonia factories lol. Much more than goodies. Now there are some that will keep that many in that size pond, but I'm afraid that the mantainance will be a lot more than a normal established pond.
     
    Fishylove, Jul 27, 2012
    #27
  8. babyblue86

    CometKeith

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    Babyblue, The biggest problem for fish in the summer is lack of oxygen. I think you hit the problem on the head when you guessed it was a lack of O2. Typically large fish have the biggest need for oxygen and will show ill affects before smaller fish do. Also dissolved oxygen tends to dip in the pond at night because your plants will use it up at night. Hence this is why people find dead fish in the morning in the summer. Things you can do: Try to shade the pond so it doesn't get hot. Warmer water holds less oxygen. Floating plants can help a lot or even a screen or anything to block the sun. Also try adding oxygenator plants if you don't have any. I have hornwort and there is a steady stream of bubbles coming up from it on hot summer days. I don't know if you have a waterfall but that is a great way to oxygenate the water. I have two water sources going to my waterfall. One from my biofilter and another pump just splashing water into the water in the pond. Another way you can add O2 is using an air pump. There are a lot of attachments you can get. I use a round ball that releases a lot of air. I use my air pump year round and it keeps a hole in the ice in the winter. Also if your fish have gotten larger the last few years they may all be competing for O2 and you may want to look into giving a few fish away to reduce the bio-load. I hope some of this helps you and good luck!
     
    CometKeith, Jul 27, 2012
    #28
  9. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    Babyblue, I must go to bed, but it was great meeting you. I'd do a water change right away, add your salt and then seed your bio again. Do water changes weekly. And add plants! Even if you have to use a growing light :) and get some oxygen in the pond like you would put in an aquarium
    Good luck and again welcome!
     
    Fishylove, Jul 27, 2012
    #29
  10. babyblue86

    babyblue86

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    yeah the pressure going into my filter is is gravity fed. then it passes threw three chambers. two are 1.5" filter pads and the third is a column of bio balls im going to attach a couple of pics













     
    babyblue86, Jul 27, 2012
    #30
  11. babyblue86

    babyblue86

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    top two pics are my waterfall and it is just a rubber made tub the other is a top view of the filter the brown stuff on the bottome that looks like dirt is actually the paper that comes on the acrylic. and the last is some of the plumbing.


    thanks to whoever replys to my post. i try to soak up all the info i can... especially when it comes to fish :neutral:
     
    babyblue86, Jul 27, 2012
    #31
  12. babyblue86

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    hmmm. Babyblue, your pictures are busted. just says "no permission" on my end.

    ----------------------------

    With as little information ya provided, too easy to misdiagnose the problem and there is a good chance that any advice given will cause more harm than good.

    Ya really need to share the full test results, numbers and all. Give an exact description of everything going on including fish population and picture of your bio-filtering.

    I would be careful with salting since there are medications that do not react well at all with salinity. Normally, salt is suggest in a quarantine tank situations, not for full pond treatments.

    Oxygen deficiency is just a symptom with many, many different causes.

    Be careful with water changes if you are doing big changes at once that could cause big pH swings which will stress your fish, making them even more sick. Tap water can add all sorts of bad stuff into the water such as chlorines, chloramines, ammonia, nitrates. It would be good to test your tap water as well. Petsmart is a store that can test your water for ya.

    Koiguy has written an excellent thread, Practical Pond Fish Medicine
     
    crsublette, Jul 27, 2012
    #32
  13. babyblue86

    capewind

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    Late reading, and only scan read, so may have missed some important info, so if this has already been asked/answered, will appologize in advance.

    1000 gallon INDOOR pond, with 3500 gph filtration through bio balls only?

    Is there a LOT of natural light, or is it in a basement (I have a 750 gallon quarantine pond in the basement, which DOES have challenges over an outside pond)

    Exactly what were your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph readings?

    How many fish, and at what size?
     
    capewind, Jul 28, 2012
    #33
  14. babyblue86

    Fishylove

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    Hi cape :)
    He has 9 koi and a Goldie and its in the basement :( lots of challenges for sure. He does have a pressurized bio filter with bio balls and a medium filter pad that he cleans when the water gets murky. I've told him he needs to get a pre filter and really not to touch the bio filter as it could destroy the good guys. No plants, he needs to get those,even if it takes a grow light. I'm not really familiar with basement ponds, so what I told him above is really all I could offer.
    I'm not professing to know the answers but he needs to do something quickly or he'll loose another. I believe him cleaning the bio pads hasn't helped anything :)
     
    Fishylove, Jul 28, 2012
    #34
  15. babyblue86

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Hmmm, post#30 he's describing a gravity flow filter, not a pressurized.

    With the pond size he describes, sounds like a 800 gallon pond with 9 koi and a goldfish, which I assume is a comet type. Don't know the fish size and feeding schedule, which can make a huge difference.

    IF it is a bio-filter failure, then he can get some ammonia binder chemical to make the ammonia safe until he builds a proper bio-filter.

    IF it is a bio-filter failure and his tap water has high pH, then water changes will make ammonia more toxic causing more troubles to the fish.

    Don't see how plants would help to fix his problem. Plants just feed on nitrates, phosphates, put out aglutinins, might have some beneficial bacteria on the roots, and do a few other things. It really takes extremely high nitrates to retard nitrifying bacteria, which leads to fish problems, but I have read some tap water have very high nitrates, another reason why water changes can be harmful.

    Only should recommend water changes after ya know all of the facts, otherwise likely causing more fish to die.

    The exact test results of both pond water and tap water really need to be known.

    A picture of the ill fish would help as well.
     
    crsublette, Jul 28, 2012
    #35
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  16. babyblue86

    capewind

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    Thanks Fishy, I need to go back and read the whole thing again... My BIG questions remaining is just how big are those 9 koi? and all the test results on the water. Even with grow lights, which we have (4, 48" glow light bulbs), I cant get squat for plants to even live in one of the filters (does an ivy count? LOL).

    Unless I misunderstood, it didnt sound like the filters had been running long? So I am thinking along the lines of a serious ammonia spike (been there/done that/paid the price). We are really pushing the limits with our QT pond. Like I said, it is 750, and we have 11 fish in it. Smallest is about 13", largest is 24"... average fish is 16-18"... wayyy too many. We are able to pull it off thanks to being an ESTABLISHED system, and have FOUR filters on it. Two are pressurized canisters, and two are home made bio systems (one is actually an old wet dry system from a marine aquarium).

    I understood he was doing water changes, and that is a must for us (25% about 2x month, except when they spawned LOL). Is he using some form of a de-chlorination product for the fresh water he is adding (our replacement water comes from our outside pond)? I am not a big salt fan, so not concerned with that... He also needs to be VERY careful about over feeding in such a small area, as that will play havic with the water quality too...

    Another question coming to mind, is does he have a lot of BROWN algae on the walls of the pond? Some cant be helped... and much worse, WHITE algae/mold? Yet another question is HOW damp is the basement... thinking mold again...

    Sunlight is our friend with our outside ponds, a damp, dark basement can be "challenging"... not impossible to do, but this is not the place to bend too many rules and get away with it, without paying a LOT of attention to all the variables...
     
    capewind, Jul 28, 2012
    #36
  17. babyblue86

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Cape, ya should look into "fuildized bio-filters" or trickle towers or shower towers. A single, properly built one, will replace all of your bio-filters, except an extra mechanical filter prior to these types are suggested. These fancy, DIY, bio-filters are extremely effective, space saving, low to zero maintenance (depending on how its built), and were created specifically for extremely high fish populations in small containers.
     
    crsublette, Jul 28, 2012
    #37
  18. babyblue86

    capewind

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    Thanks:) The QT's filters are mostly spare parts.... The 2 canisters were from our old pond, and the two home made bios were simple improvisions of spare parts... aka the 36" x 12' x 12" wet drive system from our old 180 gallon marine/reef tank, and the other is made out of a large tote. I know hubby has been looking for a "food grade 55 gallon barrel" but hasnt gotten far with that yet...
     
    capewind, Jul 28, 2012
    #38
  19. babyblue86

    babyblue86

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    thanks for all your responses. ummm of the nine koi the average length is probably 9 inches. i tested my water last night and my nitrates are pretty high and my water hardness is high also. both of which is out of the ordinary. i accidently posted my pics and set them to private lol ooops. i have been in the hobby only a year and my pond still needs alot of work due to money and experience. everytime i learn something new i do my best to change it as soon as possible. im going to post my pics again. let me know if you can see them. they are also posted earlier in this thread once i changed the setting they showed up













     
    babyblue86, Jul 28, 2012
    #39
  20. babyblue86

    babyblue86

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    the brown on the bottom of the second pic is not dirt it is the paper backing left on the acrylic. i built the filter myself out of 6mm acylic
     
    babyblue86, Jul 28, 2012
    #40
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