Sick Koi Please Help

[Concernedfishowner]

My Koi began acting strange about a week after I introduced a lily pad and some other aquatic plants to my pond. Over the last couple of days they have been dying off one by one. When I planted the plants there was quite a bit of soil that dusted up but I added some clarifier and it eventually cleared up. I have removed the plants from the pond two days ago and I've treated for bacterial infection/ammonia but nothing I've done seems to have helped. I've also been slowly changing the water over the last several days. I'm not sure what's wrong and I'm not sure how to help them. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Additional details... Pond was built about a month ago and is about 400 gallons. My Koi and goldfish had hybrids last year and these smaller fish have been the ones dying. The Koi and hybrid are both still alive but listless. The smaller fish developed a white film all over prior to passing, but the Koi and comet gold fish don't seem to have this. I've probably changed 30% of the water volume. Used stress coat to treat for chlorine, used ammonia remover, and bacteria/ich treatment. The fish seem to spend most of the time hiding currently but will occasionally swim to the top before returning to the bottom. On some of the smaller fish there seemed to be bleeding around the gils when I removed them. My water tests indicate a high side of medium PH and Alkalinity and no nitrates. The alkalinity to start appeared high but the PH was not as high as the alkalinity. Water changes seem to have helped the alkalinity some. No visible signs of parasites that I can tell.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

What are the results of ALL of your water tests? If the pond is only a month old, it probably has not had time to cycle — and it’s only 400 gallons which is too small for koi. The plants may or may not have been a factor — they can sometimes transfer parasites, but the problem sounds like general poor water quality. Any time fish are stressed, they are more susceptible to diseases. Water changes are good — if you are on city water are you using a product to remove both chlorine and ammonia from the water you are adding?

 

[Concernedfishowner]

Thank you for the reply I'm new to this kind of thing so I apologize for having bad details. These fish were previously living in a 130 gallon pond for about 3 years prior to this. I was misinformed about the size needed for the fish and so built this larger pond I'm using a test strip bottle but the results don't seem markedly different between my pond water and the water straight from the tap. I am treating the water with a dechlorinator and ammonia treatment. From what I'm reading the symptoms seem close to costia, but I don't have a microscope or ability to confirm if that's the case

 

[j.w]

@Concernedfishowner

 

[WaterGardener]

Can you post actual readings for your tests? We need the numbers.

If you can get the liquid type tests they. would be better. They are more accurate than the strips.

What was the clarifier you added? Those types of products are not normally recommended as those products can cause more harm than good.

As Mmathis said, your pond is too small for koi and it is very overstocked. The pond has not had time to cycle and build up the bacteria needed to process the ammonia that all those fish are producing.

Please look up nitrogen cycle. It's essential to know about that with your pond and fish.

Some koi bleed from the gills when stressed. They are likely stressed from the water conditions.

Don't try to treat for anything else right now. It's always important to fix the water first. Most problems will vanish in good healthy water.

You need to get through the nitrogen cycle before the water will improve.

Also, high alkalinity is good.

 

[Concernedfishowner]

To clarify I only have one Koi and one comet goldfish and they decided to have children. However prior to this they had been living healthily (albeit cramped) in a much smaller pond.

For clarifier I used a barley clarifier that I believed to be more gentle for the fish, but I could be wrong.

Unfortunately I haven't been keeping my test strip readings but I just took the one found below. Not sure if the images are clear enough to be helpful.

 

[Mgessert]

As water warms up, the wastes become more toxic, and oxygen levels drop as well. The water changes will help, and I would increase the aeration as well.

 

[CometKeith]

H

To clarify I only have one Koi and one comet goldfish and they decided to have children. However prior to this they had been living healthily (albeit cramped) in a much smaller pond.

For clarifier I used a barley clarifier that I believed to be more gentle for the fish, but I could be wrong.

Unfortunately I haven't been keeping my test strip readings but I just took the one found below. Not sure if the images are clear enough to be helpful.

Hi. I’m sorry about the problems you are having. It’s really difficult starting up a brand new pond because it takes a while for beneficial bacteria to grow. so These are a few random thoughts. Do not worry about algae and do not try to remove it with a clarifier. Algae is your friend until your pond cycles because it will feed on the excess ammonia. Is there any way you can reduce the bio-load until your pond cycles by giving away one of the fish until you are ready for it? Do you have a biological filter? I didn’t see that you mentioned that. They are extremely helpful. I would severely limit feeding until your pond has cycled. A sure way to know a pond has cycled is the hair algae will disappear on its own. I know it’s too late but the best strategy for making a new pond is to keep the old one until the new one is fully cycled and ready to accept your fish.

 

[Concernedfishowner]

Thank you all for all the help. Its very apparent I didn't understand what all comes with a new pond and I'm kicking myself for that... I'm down to just the two adults (koi/comet). I do have two bio filters in series one around the pump and one with a UV light for free floating algae. I have not used any algaecide and only used the clarifier to clean up dirt. I do have quite a bit of stringy algae growing on the walls of the pond, but I didn't see that as an issue. Would you continue to do additional water changes? I've probably changed around 1/3 of the total water

 

[SarahT]

Thank you all for all the help. Its very apparent I didn't understand what all comes with a new pond and I'm kicking myself for that... I'm down to just the two adults (koi/comet). I do have two bio filters in series one around the pump and one with a UV light for free floating algae. I have not used any algaecide and only used the clarifier to clean up dirt. I do have quite a bit of stringy algae growing on the walls of the pond, but I didn't see that as an issue. Would you continue to do additional water changes? I've probably changed around 1/3 of the total water

I'm so sorry for your fish loss. I'd not worry at all about clearing algae. Fish usually act strange in a new environment (though not die). Don't feed them, or not much at all, they will eat the algae if they're hungry. Can you add aeration? Even an aquarium pumped - covered/ protected from rain - with an airstone or two helps add oxygen.
Ponds can be more difficult than one thinks, as you can tell from postings on this and other pond sites, so allow yourself some mistakes (no kicking needed), learn, enjoy having a pond and being part of this group.

 

[WaterGardener]

Thanks for the additional information and very sorry for the losses.

Please read about the nitrogen cycle. You will find information about how to get your fish through that.

Your pond needs ammonia to feed the bacteria, but the ammonia is toxic to the fish. Until the pond is cycled and those bacteria have grown a sufficient quantity to handle it, the fish will be vulnerable. The strips don't usually even test for ammonia, so that test would be helpful.

Prime, made by Seachen, will bind that ammonia and the nitrite to keep the fish safe. For that purpose it will last only 48 hours, when it will need to be dosed again. You will have to keep doing that until the pond has fully cycled.

Aeration is always good idea.

What sort of filtration do you have?

Sorry you are having to go through this. But most of us have at some point and have had to learn this the hard way.

 

[Mmathis]

@Concernedfishowner We, as a group, are here for several reasons. Two of those reasons 1) we are here to learn, and 2) we are here to help other people learn. Add a 3rd reason, and we are here for fellowship, but that’s beside the point.

Unfortunately, we tend to learn more from our mistakes than from our successes. I am willing to bet that there isn’t a member on here who hasn’t made a mistake at some point, and also that we (even our more experienced members) are still learning from the mistakes (and successes) of others.

My advice, as has already been mentioned by others:

• don’t beat yourself up, but LEARN from this. Pond keeping is fun and rewarding.
• LEARN ABOUT THE NITROGEN CYCLE! It’s the basis of a healthy pond. You will learn about biofiltration and about the beneficial bacteria.
• get a liquid/drop test kit (like API) and use that to follow the nitrogen cycle so you can learn how everything interacts
• always question the “WHY” as you are learning, and look at the science behind the reasons
• find a new home for the koi. Koi are big waste producers, and they grow fast. There is a reason that they aren’t recommended for small ponds.

 

[Concernedfishowner]

Thank you so much for all of the help. I increased the aeration and did more water changeouts and it's looking like the two parents are going to make it. Unfortunately I did end up losing all of the babies.

I've heard bio filtration a couple of times which I think is what I have? I have two filters one around the pump and one with the UV light that consist of a green sponge and a black larger filter. These have what I call bio balls in the boxes. I also have a UV light for free floating algae. I'm wondering if that also contributed to the issue when the pond first started by adding a large amount of dead bio.

 

[Criscar]

To clarify I only have one Koi and one comet goldfish and they decided to have children. However prior to this they had been living healthily (albeit cramped) in a much smaller pond.

For clarifier I used a barley clarifier that I believed to be more gentle for the fish, but I could be wrong.

Unfortunately I haven't been keeping my test strip readings but I just took the one found below. Not sure if the images are clear enough to be helpful.

I hope your remaining fish are hanging in there. Have you had a chance to get a liquid test kit and check it yet?

Everyone else already covered a lot but I did want to add, I am really not sure if I am reading your strip correctly, but did that show an extremely high level of nitrite? Seachem prime is one of the few safe things you can add to your water in a nitrite emergency and it’s definitely worth always having some on hand when you are cycling a new pond. It also helps neutralize ammonia.

Good luck!

 

[CometKeith]

Thank you so much for all of the help. I increased the aeration and did more water changeouts and it's looking like the two parents are going to make it. Unfortunately I did end up losing all of the babies.

I've heard bio filtration a couple of times which I think is what I have? I have two filters one around the pump and one with the UV light that consist of a green sponge and a black larger filter. These have what I call bio balls in the boxes. I also have a UV light for free floating algae. I'm wondering if that also contributed to the issue when the pond first started by adding a large amount of dead bio.

Hi. What you have is a basic biofilter that isn’t very efficient at what it’s supposed to be doing. I prefer the enclosed kind that are either pressurized, or a bead filter, or gravity filter. All of them should have the capability to be cleaned easily or back flushed without having to open the container holding the filter media. In my opinion when something is trying to do to much like as in a waterfall biofilter box it’s not very effective as a biofilter. Basic pressurized biofilters start around a few hundred dollars. Re your UV light I know it kills free floating algae but I have never used one because it doesn’t really contribute to healthier water for your fish. I know some people like them. I would much rather have a good quality biofilter over something like that. On a whole different subject a lot of people here would recommend a bog over any kind of filter. I have both a bead filter and a bog for my 10 Koi and 50 goldfish!