Water Changes

[Meyer Jordan]

when they feel closed in they release a chemical into the water and they stop growing, so by doing water changes im diluting toxins and removing the anti growth chemical when i replace the water

The scientific community is still debating whether or not such a chemical exists as it has never been isolated from water for chemical identification. Some think that this is an internal process triggered by stress.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

but this year im employing the continuous drip in drip out method,

That's the way I've been doing it for many years now. So much simpler than draining the pond and refilling it, and keeps the pond water level perfect all the time. And even if you have chlorinated water as the source water the chlorine disperses faster then it can build up so you don't have to worry about dechlorinating the replacement water.

 

[MitchM]

Flow through systems is a simple water change... such as what I do and some nishikigoi breeders in Japan do (to avoid dumping truck loads of crushed calcium carbonate products)...

Simple flow through water change systems basically emulate a lake that is fed by springs and the lake dumping out the excess water into small creeks.

I wasn't referring to the process, I was referring to the levels of salt and ions that change because of the differences between the incoming source water and existing pond water.
Depending on the rebalancing that has to take place, it can be stressful on the fish.

 

[MitchM]

I really think people should also define their terms, such as "muck in pond". In context of my circumstance, due to lack of significant wind blocks and high winds and surrounded by agriculture, after a strong day of 40mph wind, there is a good thin film of soil in my pond. After about a week of this type of weather, there is at least about a 1/4 inch of soil in my pond. Technically, soil is minced up rock material. Plant nor rock eating microbrial life will make this soil disappear before it accumulates quite significantly in my little pond. Still, I only quite sparingly and lightlyYou have to take into consideration the mineral and organic "vacuum" my little pond maybe once a month.

Soil is a relative term, though.
One has to consider the mineral and organic composition which varies by location.
The majority of dust that blow into my pond is clay which is high in mineral composition, low in organic content. As a result, my pond water is high in KH. I rely on leaves, dead bugs and other plant matter to provide the necessary humic substances to complete the decomposition process that keeps my pond healthy.

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[crsublette]

I wasn't referring to the process, I was referring to the levels of salt and ions that change because of the differences between the incoming source water and existing pond water.
Depending on the rebalancing that has to take place, it can be stressful on the fish.

I agree there is much truth in this, which is quit circumstantial on the water source quality, speed of water change, and how the pond is built.

 

[MitchM]

Charles, do you know anything about how UV light affects redox?

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[MitchM]

That's the way I've been doing it for many years now. So much simpler than draining the pond and refilling it, and keeps the pond water level perfect all the time. And even if you have chlorinated water as the source water the chlorine disperses faster then it can build up so you don't have to worry about dechlorinating the replacement water.

Mucky, how does trickle water flow work for you in the winter?

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[crsublette]

Soil is a relative term, though..

I agree. I should have used the word "dirt" rather than "soil".

As a result, my pond water is high in KH.....

Also, plants and particular biological activity provide a level of alkalinity to an extent as well. This is why, as you likely know due to your aquaponic adventure, that a properly built single loop aquaponic system provides enough alkalinity to the water as long as the fish protein consumption is balanced with the plant density, but then there is always that concern about what happens with the balance in the transition between Winter and Spring.

The majority of dust that blow into my pond is clay which is high in mineral composition, low in organic content. As a result, my pond water is high in KH.
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Yeah, I don't entirely buy the idea that atmospheric particles are capable of providing a substantial amount of alkalinity. I imagine the particles provide a small extent, but I doubt they provide a significant amount to offset the immense amount of humic acid created by organic decomposition.

 

[crsublette]

Charles, do you know anything about how UV light affects redox?

Nah, I never looked much into relationship between UV light and redox. I stopped using my UV light some time ago. Those articles you shared about this issue is quite interesting and I have bookmarked them so I can study them further. Much appreciated.

 

[crsublette]

Mucky, how does trickle water flow work for you in the winter?

I know I'm not Mucky... but...

I use one of those 25 foot RV insulated heated garden hose (temperature controlled).. I am looking to put mine underground one of these days, but just been too lazy to do it.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Mucky, how does trickle water flow work for you in the winter?

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I turn off the drip when things start to freeze over. I would like to leave it on but I have to turn off the outside irrigation lines off in the winter and drain them so they don't freeze. I don't have to worry about evaporation rates in the winter because first of all it's not as hot and dry, and winter is generally when we get most of our precipitation in the form snow. However this does lead to a bit of a water quality problem in the spring. Rain/snow water tends to be very low PH and KH, that coupled with the already weakened state of my pond critters and during the spring thaw when all the ice and snow melts the PH of the water drops dramatically, this is the only time I have ever had any fish, frog or turtle losses.
My guess is that if I could maintain the drip water change during this critical time the PH and KH would remain stable and fish losses would have been lessened. It's not that they are real bad, I didn't lose any fish last spring, but have lost some fancy goldfish and one young koi a few frogs and a couple young turtles in previous years. Probably not all the deaths can be attributed to water quality issues though. The frogs that died were ones that failed to fatten themselves up the previous year before winter hibernation, and baby turtle mortality is naturally very high. The same rules apply in backyard ponds as they do in nature, if these critters are not in the peak of health going into the winter their chances of coming out of it are severely reduced.

 

[MitchM]

Nah, I never looked much into relationship between UV light and redox. I stopped using my UV light some time ago. Those articles you shared about this issue is quite interesting and I have bookmarked them so I can study them further. Much appreciated.

I am intrigued by the relationship between light energy and DOM from what I've learned from the book by Diana Walstead http://www.amazon.com/Ecology-Planted-Aquarium-Diana-Walstad/dp/0967377366

In the book it states that the bond between iron and DOM can break from the energy of sunlight and thereby make iron available for nuisance algae growth.

I'm a little underwhelmed at the moment from my aquaponic project because of the high PH environment, plant pests and lack of mineral availability for better plant growth.

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[crsublette]

I am intrigued by the relationship between light energy and DOM from what I've learned from the book by Diana Walstead http://www.amazon.com/Ecology-Planted-Aquarium-Diana-Walstad/dp/0967377366

In the book it states that the bond between iron and DOM can break from the energy of sunlight and thereby make iron available for nuisance algae growth.

Yeah, I think I have the kindle version of that book... I'll look this up again to read how its explained.... since I also know light actually degrades chelation compounds, such as EDTA...

...and I think i read somewhere that the oxidation of UVs have an oxidation impact on nutrients, in particular iron, by breaking the organic chelation acids thus making it insoluble to plants until the microbiology makes it soluble again.

 

[crsublette]

Eventually most nutrients become plant soluble due to microbiology and plants displace the nutrients out of the water (as long as they don't decompose back into the same water).

 

[slick]

I intend to use water purification cartridges on the incoming warer supply, in winter when fish are less active I will turn off dip feed I run a 55 watt evo vu 24,7 a 110mm bottom drain which supplies a vortex pre filter followed by a bead filter I also run a surface skimmer no plant's so my pond set up my be very different to yours, as for the growth chemical correct there is NO prof it even exists! and no concrete evidence that the drip in drip out method helps in any way all you can do is the best you think, uv no uv bottom drain or not?