Waterfall is enough right?

[crsublette]

Stuff really isn't rocket science, but always something to learn.

I know some fish are just destined to die.

When I got my feeder goldfish, put them in my QT, all parameters in what considered to be "healthy", treated water as I was told to the 'T', and 2 out of the 5 fish just died likely since they were pretty sick already when i bought them.

 

[koiguy1969]

feeders should be bought with the fore knowledge that their chances of survival are greatly reduced in comparison to supposed healthy stock. they are minimally fed if at all...packed in overcrowded tanks with little or no maintainence. theyve had no attention to health at all. theyre sold in the expectation that they'll be in the stomach of a larger carnivorous fish within days!

 

[buckry]

I have mostly been buying "assortments" of fish to get my stock level up. My total investment in 30 various koi is probably about $250, so it seems probably that at this price point, you get what you pay for.

Good news is I went home for lunch and no fish were acting weird. I replaced my aerator with a much bigger one and a huge airstone. Then I added another one just like it to the far end of the pond. So I may or may not need this, but it's 100 degrees today so I'm not going to take any chances. Of course I had my arms down in the water and it was super cool, those little buggers can't complain about the temperature down there, it's got to get well under 70.

Feeling confident it's a fish problem, just need to get a few days under my belt with zero deaths and I'll feel much better.

 

[Waterbug]

I know some fish are just destined to die.

We're all in that boat.

Hydrogen sulfide
There is a slight concern with hydrogen sulfide, which could be what a poster was saying about a submerged filter and also about the recent green water die off. I hesitated to bring it up earlier because people go absolutely insane at the mere mention... It must be that! It's the rotten egg odor odor people smell when they clean their pond. Hydrogen sulfide is produced in water gardens all the time and it is indeed toxic, the issue is the amount.

A recent algae bloom die off causes a sudden increase in the bacteria that fest and reproduce rapidly on new rich food. But it would be pretty rare for this to be a large enough source to cause the fish deaths. Hydrogen sulfide is more toxic at lower pH levels, higher temps and lower O2.

Static submerged media collects waste and is a constant source of new fresh waste so these types of low O2 filters would be a perfect home for the bacteria that produce hydrogen sulfide. However, again, in most water gardens it's a low enough level that fish can handle it.

It's the same issue many people have with loose rocks in the bottom of a pond, yet they're happy to install a static submerged media filter creating the exact same environment. Because something is called a "filter" doesn't mean it's beneficial.

Carbon monoxide is toxic to humans, will kill us in minutes. Yet we breath it all the time. Concentrations are important.

The most common cases I've seen where hydrogen sulfide would be a main suspect is when fish are fed heavily and there is no or a poor bottom drain system removing waste. It's the sudden build up of fresh very rich food that is the problem. A single food pellet can have as much nutrients for bacteria as few handfuls of leaves, and the pellet breaks down really fast so the bacteria can really multiply fast.

Hydrogen sulfide is a real problem in mud bottom fish farm ponds where they have to feed heavy and can't clean the bottom. Read about it their forums all the time.

Hydrogen sulfide can also be a problem in some well water.

Whether anyone wants to go crazy about hydrogen sulfide is a personal choice. Keeping a pond clean does have lots of upside, but low fish load water gardens can handle normal hydrogen sulfide production.

 

[buckry]

Would I smell rotten eggs at all if this were my problem? Because I don't, all I smell near my pond is this vaguely wet smell, it's not fishy, it's not like rain, it's just wet. I hope it stays like that.

 

[buckry]

Why is a submerged filter a constant source of new waste, but an out of pond isn't?

 

[buckry]

Well just read up on HS2, and it says that it's most prevalent in established ponds which mine definitely is not, and it says it's usually only an issue when your PH is 6.5 or lower. I'm at 8.0 in the morning and evening, in fact, I'm a little worried it's going to creep higher on me, but so far every test has come up 8.0.

Not to mention, it's not like I put my filter buckets into the water and then walk away leaving them to fester for months on end. I clean both weekly. I take out the filter material and hose it off really quick to get the large particles off, then I put it all back, hopefully keeping most of the beneficial bacteria.

I think we can cross HS2 off the list as well.

You know what it could be, aquatic organ snatchers. People sneaking into my yard while I'm at work, cutting my fish open, taking out their livers and sewing them back up. Poor little guys. Wonder how much a black market carp liver goes for? $2?

 

[Waterbug]

Would I smell rotten eggs at all if this were my problem?

No. It's can only be smelled when cleaning a pond with thick muck. It's released in great volume when the muck is disturbed..

 

[Waterbug]

Why is a submerged filter a constant source of new waste, but an out of pond isn't?

Static submerged media...not submerged filter. Doesn't matter if the filter is inside or outside of the pond. But filter at the bottom of a pond is pretty much always going to also contain static submerged media.

As water flows thru static submerged media some waste collects and is a new source of food for the bacteria.

 

[Waterbug]

Well just read up on HS2, and it says that it's most prevalent in established ponds

Yes and no. It is true an older pond with a lot of muck will contain a lot of HS2, but it's trapped in the muck, it stays there for the most part. Old muck doesn't have much food left for the bacteria, but bacteria does continue to feed on what's there and the gas builds up in pockets. Some times a pocket breaks loose, like swamp gas, but that's not really super toxic because the bubble goes to the surface and is released into the air. But most HS2 stays trapped in the muck, doing no harm.

When people empty a pond and get down in the muck to scoop it out a lot of gas is released into a 3' deep hole which the owner is standing. It's pretty bad. Then they go on and on about how toxic this stuff is. Well yeah, now it is.

The real worry...not that this applies to you...is a lot of uneaten food on the bottom...very thin layer...bacteria eat the food...reproduce like crazy....nothing to trap the HS2 and so you get a billion little HS2 factories each putting HS2 molecules into the water column which are very slow to out gas and there's the real problem. Now you have a lot of HS2 in the water column which the fish breath. Most people would look at the pond and say it's clean, just a little bit of light stuff on the bottom.

You're not feeding 5 lbs of food per day right? So nothing to worry about.

Not to mention, it's not like I put my filter buckets into the water and then walk away leaving them to fester for months on end. I clean both weekly. I take out the filter material and hose it off really quick to get the large particles off, then I put it all back, hopefully keeping most of the beneficial bacteria.

So you shouldn't worry about HS2.

I think we can cross HS2 off the list as well.

Good idea.

 

[crsublette]

I found an article by Carl Strohmeyer[color=000000].[/color] Requires particular variables to be met for anaerobic bacteria to produce Hydrogen Sulfide (h2s). Also, explains how reef/coral hobbyist can setup a denitrification filter that prevents the anaerobic bacteria from producing the H2S, but still uses anaerobic bacteria.

Dr. Johson also has a quick write up about symptoms of H2S. I am guessing the fish gasping at the surface might be a sign of respiratory problems and ya said ya found zero ammonia and zero nitrite in the water. Since your pond is so young, I don't know if it could be H2S poisoning, but possible I guess if all the variables were right. I think it would be a long shot though for a new pond. Johnson also mentions HACH makes a test kit for H2S if ya think you need to test for it.

 

[buckry]

Just lost my third fish in the same way, I know I should go out and test, but I'm so pissed off right now I really don't care. At this point I'm ready to let them all die and just forget it this year. Obviously something is terribly wrong. Maybe letting the pond sit without fish for a year is what I need.

 

[crsublette]

Hmmm ... if ya think it is a cycling issue, then look into Seachem Stability on Amazon for 8 bucks . I stopped using the Microbe-Lift products since they use a noticeable amount of Hydrogen Sulfide as a preservative for their liquid bacteria. I have used it to restart my filters. With all the work I have been doing, I have drained my filters and water feature so many times that I let the bacteria die. For 435 gallons, Seachem Stability only costs me a one time cost of $80 to jumpstart my filters and this stuff was much faster than any results I got from Microbe-Lift. With Stability, it literally took less than a week for my Ammonia and Nitrites to disappear within 24 hours from my ammonium dosage. Since ya already have fish, do not do the ammonium dosing. Product might be too expensive though for you with a much bigger pond.

Maybe ya just need to keep the few fish in there that ya have and let the pond get cycled. Without additives, I am told it takes 4~8 weeks. If ya think your pond testing might be faulty, then get some different tests. Ya can also take your water to a place like Petsmart to get tested.

If ya really think it might be parasites or something more sinister, then see if there is anyone that can look further into it.

After all the work ya put into it, I can relate to the aggravation. Some folk just are lucky and have few worries; other folk not so much. I'm hoping for the best for ya man.

Don't give up man. This is part of the process.

 

[sissy]

sorry to hear but it has to be that the pond did not cycle enough before you put your fish in and with the heat it could have caused some of your problems .Did you take all the dead plants out .I know you are upset but don't give up on the fish you have left.When temps in your pond get up there it just produces more of whatever is killing your fish .Please try the quilt batting ,it may work to clear out the toxins and when you rinse it out soak in peroxide and put it back in.It can't hurt at this point .You can get a crate or laundry basket and quilt batting at walmart .It may work to get the toxins out .Have you checked the temps of your pond water .Turning over the cooler water on the bottom is not a good idea ,I know from what you say you have your filters in a buckets from your bridge and it could be coming from it and be in the filters .It's depressing but don't give up just try a little harder you will make it .

 

[buckry]

I don't think it's a stability issue, it's got to be a parasite that came in with the new fish.