What to dig with?

[jenn.]

So it's official! We have decided that we want to merge and expand our ponds. Our little $3-$5 fry we bought 3 years ago are now 9"-10" and having babies of their own that are already getting big! At this rate we will need to expand and go deeper so they can reach potential and NOT GET EATEN!

So we will need to dig and we have clay here so I want some help. What can we use/rent to help with the dig. I was wondering if anyone has used a tiller. Not sure if we could get a bob cat or anything that large in easily.

Oh yeah, we were thinking ~17' long x 8' wide x 4 deep (but irregularly shaped). Not sure what that is in gallons but we have about a year to plan for our ultimate pond (though I wish it was already here)

 

[mrsclem]

We are currently digging our 2nd koi condo. 10x10x4 in red clay. It is in our back yard and we have no access for large equipment so we are using a small tiller and wheelbarrow to move the dirt. Our tiller is faily small- 13" wide and depth of 6" but we have most of the digging done after only one day. Hubby is doing 90% of the work!

 

[jenn.]

Wow so it is really effective huh? When we dug our first koi pond it was only 2-3 ft deep and 9x9 but it took like a month (nevermind it was during a heat wave of over 110 most days). If I could get it done in a day that would be awesome! We already have to big holes dug so there won't be to much straight down this time.

Haha! Me and my hubby have to alternate cause we have a little one to watch

What are peoples opinions on bottom drains also. Do I need any, how many and what kind?

 

[DrDave]

You will get a lot of opinions here on that subject. To me, a good submersible pump does the same job and when I have string algae or leaves plugging things up it takes me 5 minutes to clean it without getting into the pond.
With a bottom drain, you realy need a good vacuum to clean the muck that won't go down the drain. Otherwise it will eventually get stopped up.

 

[x-Adam-x]

I'm currently working on my first pond for koi and everywhere i look and everyone i ask says YES to a bottom drain.

http://www.aquaart.com/drain.html

this is one that was referred to me - no digging or cutting the liner. Koikeepr on here will tell you its worth every penny. but there are others depending on the route you want to go

 

[DrDave]

Ask all those yes folks how they clean their drains when leaves and string algae clog them up. Especially those with deep ponds. SCUBA gear?
You have to weigh the good with the bad. None of the advocates here have ever addressed the bad.

 

[x-Adam-x]

not trying to be conflicting, but could you not just pull the retro drain out without getting in the water?

 

[ZmanArt007]

What is the point of that alternate water route on that picture?

 

[koikeepr]

I've never had string algae (knock on wood), and yes, with a retro drain you just lift it and move it around if you are using soft pipe. I never had any issues.

 

[DoDad]

As for the leafs my skimmer gets most of them and the 4" bottom drain takes care of the rest. I've had string algae with no problem except once when I emptied my setteling chamber it pluuged the 2" drain.
The good out weighs the bad by a ton of poop.

I've never had string algae (knock on wood), and yes, with a retro drain you just lift it and move it around if you are using soft pipe. I never had any issues.

 

[Squidhead]

So it's official! We have decided that we want to merge and expand our ponds. Our little $3-$5 fry we bought 3 years ago are now 9"-10" and having babies of their own that are already getting big! At this rate we will need to expand and go deeper so they can reach potential and NOT GET EATEN!

So we will need to dig and we have clay here so I want some help. What can we use/rent to help with the dig. I was wondering if anyone has used a tiller. Not sure if we could get a bob cat or anything that large in easily.

Oh yeah, we were thinking ~17' long x 8' wide x 4 deep (but irregularly shaped). Not sure what that is in gallons but we have about a year to plan for our ultimate pond (though I wish it was already here)

It would all depend on what you are digging in. I have lived in 4 different locations all with different types of soil and sub soil. I used a tiller to break up ground at my last home before digging. I lived on a mountain top that had dark clay soil, but loaded with rock. The tiller helped with breaking up the soil for easier digging by hand for sure. Unfortunately, in some locations either an huge excavator would have been needed or a jack hammer to get through larger burried boulders. I used a 5 H.P. front tine tiller. It was on the small side of tillers but worked great. Anyway, One thing I have learned is that you need the right tool for the job. These are the tools I have used digging my pond. Each one was used for a particular job in the dig. You will find that you will use a lot less energy by having the right one for the right task. Here are some suggested tools for hand digging.

• A pick / mattock combo shown here - http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
  This is great for getting through compact clay and shale as well as roots. The pointed pick end will bust up the obstacle. The mattock is good for prying and scraping as well as busting up clay or shale.

• This shovel is great to start the dig. It penetrates the topsoil nicely giving you a clean edge. It is great for your coping shelf, or if you are doing a plant shelf. http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

• A Breaker Bar - This is a long, heavy bar that resembles a large chisel. They are usually 5 - 6 foot long and they are great to break up hard ground and obstacles as well as prying up large stones and stumps.
• A round point shovel - Just your typical spade shaped shovel for digging
• A flat shovel - This is great for final shaping of the bottom and sides as well as the grade around the pond

 

[JustMe]

Wow,..I'm was thinking more along the lines of this

 

[jenn.]

Yeah I have that very pick axe (so helpful for a lot of things). We might not need to dig down any more , just to the side. I think we have decided to go with 2ft raised above ground plus the 3 feet we already have above. Still a lot of digging sideways though Can't fit any large machinery in our yard or I would say go for it! The soil here has almost no rocks in it and is tan clay mixed with regular compact soil.

 

[koikeepr]

We rented a dingo for the day, and it was well worth the money. We got the whole pond dug out in 8 hours. It would have taken a week of backbreaking work without it. It also helped in moving the dirt to where we needed it to.

They do a number on your lawn, so do be ready for that, however.

 

[scottmishk]

Hi,

I'm in the process of building an oval pond (22x19x3.5).

I've never used a bobcat and the thought of tearing up my yard deterred me from trying.

I've got a fairly large Pony tiller that I tried using to break up the clay, but found digging the tilled clay out of the pond somewhat difficult.

Ultimately, I found just using a shovel in clay soil was best for me. Through trial and error, I found it easiest to dig when the soil was slightly moist... too wet and the clay was sticky and heavy...too dry and the clay was like concrete. If the moisture was just right I could dig out 'blocks' of clay.

I did end up renting an electric hammer from Home Depot to break up some of the larger rocks. Others (as you can see from the pictures) I ended up working around as the hammer just bounced off them.

Good luck with your pond.