What's the obsession with Skippys?

[Big Lou]

That's pretty well my set up. The only truly gross part is the Fall clean out of the filters. I pressure wash the filter matts, then use the ShopVac to suck out all the muck and crap from the bottom of the 55gal plastic barrels, dump that throughout the garden, set the filter pads back up in the barrels, then put the lids on for the winter. Come Spring, I only have to turn on the pumps.......Voila, I'm up and running.

I've used D-Solv powder in the Spring for years, where you just sprinkle it all over the surface of the pond, in a few minutes all the leaves and crap miraculously floats to the top where I can scoop it all out with the pool skimmer, then suck up the rest with the PondoVac 4. Here's what the packaging looks like (see link).

http://www.canadianpondsonline.com/CrystalClear/D-Solv-p-214.html

Of course, this year Spring has been cancelled (at least for us poor, winter bedraggled Ontarians). I was ice fishing on Lake Simcoe yesterday, two miles out there was still more than 18" of ice.

D-Solv sounds too good to be true. It actually makes debris etc. float to the top or is it just solid leaves? Do you still have annaul pond bottom cleanings to femove muck? I do not have fish so the stuff on my pond bottom is from leaves.

Please reply with the pros and cons.

 

[morewater]

Leaves and crap float to the surface. Try it. If you don't like it, then don't use it again. It's cheap enough to give it a shot. I don't get a commission on the stuff. LOL

I've never removed the muck, nor do I intend to for as long as I can possibly not have to do so (which I hope will be forever). As soon as my fish file a formal complaint, I'll take their views under consideration and then have my people look into it, then get a hold of their people......

 

[JohnHuff]

Priscilla, keep reading about filters, and just decide what will work for you. We all have different / similar set ups. I, like you know, use a bog for my main ponds and have a sort of skippy for the 1000 gallon subunkin tank. Which flows into the big pond. I chose my setup which takes almost zero care from me, healthy fish, good water tests. I do drain the sort of skippy maybe once in a summer just to flush the bottom muck out.

You will read a lot of different opinions, some informative, some sarcastic, some will trash certain filters others will just post what they have and how it works for them. Your choice, keep reading and your solution will come to you.

I have to put my foot down here. I'm sorry to say that addy1's passive aggressive post is not a good post. There are 3 good posts here explaining what good filtration is. Addy1, If you don't know it yourself, please have the decency to say so. I once was a newbie and I would have hated to have a newbie read a post like this which sets their expectations back down to zero.

Waterbug, I feel your pain! An excellent post by you... yet... whooosh. Your post is so good that it should be enshrined. Yet, addy1, whose situation is explained by your post, it goes over her head. It's like you go ask someone for advice and they tell you to go away. Not good.

 

[JohnHuff]

I'm game for trying pretty well anything. So, if I removed my static filter mats from my bottom fed vortex 55gal filters, are you saying that all I'd need to do is replace the filter mats with those plastic jobbies, put a plastic grate over the top of them to keep them away from my outlet ports.....then I'm good to go?

Moving around like that, are they noisy? My seating area is about 18ft from the hidden filters, so I don't want to hear those plastic jobbies rattling around inside the 55gal plastic barrels.

I would say that you can just add the moving media without removing the mats.

I don't know what your set up is like but I'm thinking that you probably won't hear them.

 

[Mmathis]

I think it's because the CONCEPT is simple, and I don't think of that as in "easy to make," but simple as in not having to THINK beyond the obvious needs of mechanical & biological filtration. It does seem to be the first stage that a lot of ponders start with -- me included. Then, as they LEARN and understand more, they start wanting something more efficient and better at filtering if the SKIPPY hasn't fulfilled their dreams [as in my case]. I think my SKIPPY has done an OK job with the biological aspect, but not too good with mechanical filtration.

 

[JohnHuff]

The fundamentals are explained on the first page.
WaterBug's post is excellent and waxes philosophical on it. He really is a font of knowledge and sometimes I think of him as some barefooted guy on top of a mountain sitting in a zen position dispensing advice depending on his mood.
That post he made on the first page of this thread, he's said it more than once and should be enshrined so we can keep reading it now and again. But like kind of zen poem, some people won't be able to understand it yet.
The first step is to grasp and understand the fundamentals. Once you understand that, it's like a light bulb has turned on and you can build any type of filter you want with it.

 

[addy1]

I have to put my foot down here. I'm sorry to say that addy1's passive aggressive post is not a good post. There are 3 good posts here explaining what good filtration is. Addy1, If you don't know it yourself, please have the decency to say so. I once was a newbie and I would have hated to have a newbie read a post like this which sets their expectations back down to zero.

Waterbug, I feel your pain! An excellent post by you... yet... whooosh. Your post is so good that it should be enshrined. Yet, addy1, whose situation is explained by your post, it goes over her head. It's like you go ask someone for advice and they tell you to go away. Not good.

I was not being passive aggressive, just explaining we all have different ponds, different setups, different ideas. Some will argue their setups, some will dislike one built by another.

Any new ponder will and can be confused by all the different ways to filter/build a pond. The ponder has to decide what will work best for them. The way to learn is to read and ask questions, but it still comes down to making a decision as to what will work for you, your pond, your area.

So sorry you thought I was being passive aggressive. My post was not addressed toward waterbug, he can post away.

 

[JohnHuff]

I was not being passive aggressive, just explaining we all have different ponds, different setups, different ideas. Some will argue their setups, some will dislike one built by another.

Any new ponder will and can be confused by all the different ways to filter/build a pond. The ponder has to decide what will work best for them. The way to learn is to read and ask questions, but it still comes down to making a decision as to what will work for you, your pond, your area.

So sorry you thought I was being passive aggressive. My post was not addressed toward waterbug, he can post away.

On the first page, I expressly explained why I thought moving media was a good idea, it was followed up with a couple of good posts by others with explanations as to why something is better than something else.

You follow up with some mumbo-jumbo of how basically every filter is the same, you make your own choice, etc. No, I don't think every filter is the same. I think some types of media are better and I explained why. WaterBug's post expressly explains why your filter works for you.

If you think why a Skippy is better than a moving bed, please explain it here and not some mumbo-jumbo about how every filter will live happily ever after.

In the past I've seen misinformation given out to newbies and no one really says a thing because they don't want to make a fuss but I decided to make a stand because I dislike these mumbo-jumbo platitudes posing as information, and I'd just explained something and you follow up with everything's the same! Whatever.

 

[addy1]

lol no pompous know it alls allowed!

What is the best moving media? I have a sort of bottom flow 55 gallon barrel filter for my shubbie tank with almost no filtering material in it, what would you recommend putting in the already buried tank...............that would move around when the water is pumping up through it (cheap), and out into the shubbie tank. I did this because the water pumped into that shubbie tank came from the big pond unfiltered. Wanted the water flowing in to have a little filtering. The shubbie tank water then flows into the big pond via a waterfall.

John if you notice I was asking about the best type moving media to use in my sort of filter that I threw together last spring. Filter discussions can get confusing, sorry I posted in your thread.

 

[morewater]

Wow, getting a little pissy in here, aint it?

It's a pond filter, not a new filing through the FDA.

Lighten up.

 

[sissy]

Every one has there own way of building a filter and what works for me not work for you .But skippys are the first most people build because they go on you tube for info on filters and most you see on there are skippys or totes of some sorts to being the cheapest and easiest to build for a first timer .I know you tube is what I use for every repair I can think of .I did not clean my filter once last year .I just trimmed the roots on the plants in the filter and cleaned the quilt batting once every ten days .I wanted a tank I could hide some what and plus if the tank leaks it goes right back into the pond .To be honest how many of us have been on you tube for 1 thing or the other .We all can say ours works or not but it all comes down to what you can afford .The debate on if it works is up in the air.The easiest and cheapest thing to upgrade is your filter .I have no prefilters on my pumps last year .To lazy to put the crate of lava rock in and just hung my pumps from the metal pipe with a rope .Now starting over .I was even looking at sump pump vaults ,they have 2 sizes and even the flat part to put tank adapters on .

 

[Catfishnut]

I think we must keep in mind, cautiously, that each pond setup is as individual as every person is. Someone might have just a garden pond with absolutely no fish and lots of plants, someone else may have dozens of fish and very few plants. The size and shape and design of the ponds vary infinitely as do the types of aquatic life in the pond.

My situation for instance, I catch bullheads and shiners and suckers and creek chubs and bluegills and toss them in my pond to use for fishing bait. I catch them from local wild ponds which may be mud bottomed and full of yuck. I toss the entire bucket of fish that I caught into the pond (tank) when I get done catching them from the wild. They are generally dirty fish and the water from the wild pond may have grass and bark and mud in it, too.

When I catch big catfish I place them in the pond, too. I am speaking of fish from 4 pounds to 50 pounds. They make a terrible mess. But if you wish to see the worst, catch a 25-35 pound snapping turtle from the depths of a mud bottomed lake and put that guy in your pond. In a matter of a few hours your pond will be totally dark with mud and debris and putrid smelling.

I think that anyone can totally understand that my setup has very special filtration requirements. There is no one filter which could handle my system alone. I require a combination of several unique and aggressive stages to keep this water clean and healthy.

We definitely need to remember to take into account the "BIG Picture" of the pond - the overall scope of its diversity, before judging what filtration system is necessary in every case.

Gordy

 

[sissy]

very true and add in sun or shade and overfeeding or overstocking .Plants in the pond can be over stocked also and we need a mixture of everything .My filters worked with my 13 fish and feeding them 3 or 4 times a week and adding lots of aeration really does help .Well put gordy as we all have a budget and different ponds and set ups and even weather conditions .I am not sure if i could ever do a pond in some of these really cold weather states .I have seen to many overspend and fish die and then they blame so and so told me to buy this or that and my fish keep dieing .Then they give up .Sad to say but it has happened on here several times that they say I GIVE UP and then you never see another post from them

 

[callingcolleen1]

Yes Sissy, that is true, I have had many many friends over the twenty plus years that HAD ponds, but gave up, only us hard core ponders never give up, and if something does not work.. I well I will find a way to make it work!!
I will be ponding it till "death do me part" !!
Married to my pond.., hubby has to wait in line... he he he

 

[dieselplower]

I read another intro thread and it's another new pond owner building Skippys. The only reason I can think of is that the Skippy website has been there forever, there are a lot of references to it and they're easy to build.

Some of the most vital things for beneficial bacteria to grow are flow and by extension, nutrients and oxygen. Since the media of a Skippy is static media that doesn't move, sooner or later they're gonna clog up. Therefore flow will decrease and ergo whatever nutrients and oxygen will decrease with the flow. There is a good reason that waste water treatment plants do not build giant Skippys to treat their waste water.

There are many methods to get nutrients/O2 to bacteria but one of the most fundamental ideas is that the media should be constantly moving so that the flow of nutrients/O2 won't get blocked. Therefore, static media is a no-no to me.

Once you've got moving media and access to nutrients, the next thing is O2. There are some schools of thought that most O2 exchange occurs at the surface but it's easy enough to increase O2.

These methods are:
1- air pump, cons to the home ponder is that you have to add another device.
but this problem is easily solved by making your filter a:
2- shower filter
3- have the incoming stream of water fall drop onto the surface causing aeration

Really, with all the information that is available on the internet, there is no reason not to having moving media in your home filter.

I apologize in advance if I come across as a pompous know it all (please say no when replying) but the advantages of moving media is so evident I feel that I must bring it up (again).

One important thing to note is that there are really two types of filtration that need to occur in a pond in order for it to be "successful". The first form of filtration is mechanical. This is where the solids get filtered out. Leaves, poop, algae, etc. This is done better with static media. Without filtering out the solids, you will not have clear water, and the leaves and other solids waste will contribute to excess ammonia etc and even discoloration of the water in some cases. The second type of filtration is biofiltration. This must be done after mechanical filtration in order to be optimally successful. If you do not do mechanical filtration first, you will dirty up your biological media, and the bugs will not be able to grow to their full potential. The biofiltration is where the bacteria convert ammonia and nitrite into less harmful nitrate. This second stage, biofiltration, is where the moving media will be more successful. A person can not just bypass the static media like rocks, or filter pads, or whatever, and expect to get sufficient mechanical filtration using fluid media. The debris will just pass right around it and back into the pond.