2 fish dead/dying same symptoms

[myswtsins]

I have 6 3" shubs in a 100+ g netted outdoor quarantine pond, purchased about a week ago. I seeded the DIY wet/dry shower type filter with media from my main pond and do water change every other day with water from the main pond. I lost one shub already and another is very close to death. They act perfectly normal (hanging with the group, not gasping etc.) then they are lying on the bottom with labored breathing. Otherwise they look perfectly healthy (good color, no red spots, no growths, no visible parasites, no bloating, gills may be a bit redder than normal and inflamed but it is hard to tell cause it is breathing so hard).

pH - 8.0- 8.2 (my ph is this high in ALL my aquariums and pond, always)
KH - 7
GH - 6
Ammonia - .25 on WC day
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

EDIT: Forgot to mention the fish does have clamped fins now. And that my pond water tests the same as above besides .25 ammonia (obviously but just pointing it out). I think I am going to try a salt dip right now.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Is that Ammonia reading before or after the water change. Sounds like a classic case of Ammonia poisoning.

 

[sissy]

What is the temperature of your pond as heat and lack oxygen may be the problem also beside the ammonia as said .Is your pond in full sun then shade it .

 

[callingcolleen1]

when the PH is high then you can get ammonia spikes. I would concur with Meyer Jordan. At this point I do not think a salt water bath would help, but it might just do more harm than good. You should focus on reducing your PH and that will lessen the chance of another PH spike. If your pond is crowded with too many floating plants that will also act like a blanket, and smother the pond as well. Also look for yellowing tips on the pond plants as that is early evidence of an ammonia spike.

 

[myswtsins]

Thank you for your replies!
Ammonia reading is before WC. Ammonia is 0 after WC. Pond is in full shade besides maybe an hr in the am. Temp is 70F.

when the PH is high then you can get ammonia spikes.

What? High pH doesn't CAUSE ammonia spikes, it does make ammonia more toxic though.

I would concur with Meyer Jordan. At this point I do not think a salt water bath would help, but it might just do more harm than good. You should focus on reducing your PH and that will lessen the chance of another PH spike.

I do not have a pH spike, as I said that is what my pH always is in every body of water I have. Trying to lower pH usually causes more harm than good so I have never done it and don't plan to start.

If your pond is crowded with too many floating plants that will also act like a blanket, and smother the pond as well. Also look for yellowing tips on the pond plants as that is early evidence of an ammonia spike.

Pond is not crowded with plants. I have lots of aeration through my shower style filter return.

I did my WC and gave that one fish a salt bath at 2 tsp to 1/2g of water for 30 minutes. Fish does seem better! He is in clean freshwater right now recovering before I put him back into the Q pond in a floating basket. Other 5 fish are happy, active and seeming perfectly normal.

Got a few decent pics before salt bath.

 

[Tula]

I'm very sorry you lost a fish
I know you said there are no red spots and maybe it's just the lighting in these pictures, but I see red / pink areas on this fish.

Since all your water parameters are good and there were no visible signs of parasites, can you scrape and scope it, for parasites that might not be visible?

 

[sissy]

I did noticed in pic 1 and 2 gills look swollen like you said .Could the fish have swallowed something .Maybe it was just a fluke that only one got sick since you seem to be on top of every thing in the pond .I know plants use up oxygen at night but that is all I can come up with .Sorry for your fishy friend .But since your other fish are fine it is a good thing .I did have a fish that I took for people that thought it was sick but it had a pebble caught in it's mouth

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You state that the fish were placed in this new pond about a week ago. On what day did you perform the first series of water tests?

 

[myswtsins]

Fish is dead. He seemed better after his bath, able to stay upright easily and breathing was more regular. About an hr after the bath he was gone though. Just to clarify I thought he was dead when I first saw him today (laying on his side on the bottom, curved, half floating, no fin movement), that's how bad he was before I took any measures.

I'm very sorry you lost a fish
I know you said there are no red spots and maybe it's just the lighting in these pictures, but I see red / pink areas on this fish.

Since all your water parameters are good and there were no visible signs of parasites, can you scrape and scope it, for parasites that might not be visible?

Thank you. In the pictures I can see some spots, hard to tell if they are orange coloration or red spots/streaks. :/ If it is red spots it's probably septicemia right? But it shows no other signs of that. And there is no treatment for that?? I do not have a microscope, an obviously needed investment.

I did noticed in pic 1 and 2 gills look swollen like you said .Could the fish have swallowed something .Maybe it was just a fluke that only one got sick since you seem to be on top of every thing in the pond .I know plants use up oxygen at night but that is all I can come up with .Sorry for your fishy friend .But since your other fish are fine it is a good thing .I did have a fish that I took for people that thought it was sick but it had a pebble caught in it's mouth

I inspected the fish pretty well and it had nothing in it's mouth or gills. The gills did go from a bright pink/red to pale VERY soon after death though which I thought was unusual.

You state that the fish were placed in this new pond about a week ago. On what day did you perform the first series of water tests?

I test the water everyday, as I do with all newly acquired fish. I purchased the fish Friday of last week.

I've added more seeded media to the Q pond filter. Surprised any ammonia showed up at all honestly but I guess my plants in the main pond take care of most of the nitrogen cycle.

Thanks again for your continued help!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Something obviously subjected these fish to extreme stress. An abrupt change in any of the ponds water parameters could be the source. Septicemia is a result of such extreme stress.
Only you can reconstruct the events as they happened to find the real source of this tragic event.

 

[myswtsins]

(Actually got the fish on Thursday not Friday) Comparing these pictures I can see that it did have some red marks in it's face but none of the marks on it's body or it's fins!

Purchased day

Today

Huge difference. I do not know what the exact trigger was or maybe it even happened before I got the fish but my question is what do I do now to protect the remaining fish? Pretty clear that it is septicemia? Internet gives me mixed answers!

I have put the deceased fish in the freezer and tomorrow I will call around to see if any place can/will do a scope on it.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

what do I do now to protect the remaining fish?

Unfortunately, without knowing the exact cause/trigger to this problem, any attempted cure would just be conjecture and guessing. This itself could be dangerous for the remaining fish. Since no other fish have been seen exhibiting symptoms, my recommendation is to do nothing since it seems that the initial crisis has passed. Maintain good water quality and monitor the remaining fish.
It could be that the 2 fish that fell ill were already in a weakened state when you purchased them and the stress of transport and transfer was enough to push them over the edge.

 

[Dave 54]

All I see in these pictures is a shubunkin that has been exposed to a large amount of stress and is exibinting a stress response as you can see by the red streaks down his sides and tail ....
Sceptisemia is the furthest thing from my mind had it been I would be warning you not to put your hands in the water with any open cuts or scratches unless wearing gloves
With the larger koi at koi shows these markings are a very common occurance normally caused by a high amounts of stress whilst in the show vats [wre water conditions are constantly monitored throughout the day by one of the clulbs more experianced and senior members , should ammonia start to rise they get an instant change of water
How much in the way of airstones do you hae on the pond at this moment in time ?
Do you know the ponds temperature at this moment in time @myswtsins
What sort of weather have you been having of late ?



Dave

 

[Faebinder]

Those gills are very bloated. Generally ammonia poison comes with black shades over the fish's body.

I dont know what is making their gills bloated but it's clearly an infection IMO.

 

[myswtsins]

Have now lost another one and a fourth one is on his way out too, all the same symptoms. No place locally could/would examine the deceased fish. Someone tried to buy me a microscope but it's a magniscope. :/

Sorry @Dave 54 and @Faebinder I never got an alert about those last 2 posts.

No airstones just the shower type filter from drilling many holes in the bottom of a 5g bucket. I have never seen a fish gasp for air in this QT pond. I find lack of oxygen to be a very slim chance. I keep CO2 injected planted tanks and have never had a fish die due to suffocation before, gasping at the top when I had a tank dump YES but if delicate tropical fish could survive that extreme situation I would think it would take a lot to suffocate a hardy goldfish who can live in puddles, solid ice and fish bowls. But I have added an airstone anyways!

Weather has been warm but this pond is in the shade and hasn't gone above 73F.

I started feeding a medicated food after losing those first 2.

Current test results, WC done 28 hours ago
Temp - 71F
pH - 8.0
Gh - 6
Kh - 7
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrate - 0

This fish sustained a tail injury shortly after being added to the QT (purchased photos show no damage). I did "lose" (literally) 3 fish on the second night due to some sort of predator, I assume the injury happened then. Oddly enough the injury looks good, not red and is actually regrowing while the rest of him looks worse. An overview shot of the pond included too.

Down to 4 fish with one most likely not going to make it. I have a spare 30g I could put them in to better observe them and to rule out outside problems, had to put them outside before cause it was too many fish.