Added a few koi to a established goldfish pond

[Mmathis]

A lot of you have much more experience than I do and your opinions are likely based on facts. But surely there has to be people out there that overstock ponds and don't have problems. So like it was said above that you can have over-filter an over-stocked pond, are there any suggestions to increase filtration besides loading up the entire bottom of my pond with box filters?

Hmmmm….. Maybe you need to hop over to KOIPHEN.COM. THOSE are the guys who very successfully handle overstocked ponds. They have what we refer to as DKP’s, or dedicated koi ponds. For the most part, they have very sophisticated filtration setups, consisting of multiple exterior filters, settlement chambers, bottom drains, etc. Most of these setups take up a good bit of real estate. But, they can feed their koi multiple times per day, and have pristine water. They also have very regimented care routines and check their water parameters frequently.

The trick is not by having “multiple box filters” inside the pond. The trick is having a good pump that will take your water to an effective filtration system. As @Lisak1 said, while mechanical filtration is important, it’s the biological filtration that keeps the pond alive — literally. It’s all about surface area for the beneficial bacteria. An overstocked pond will require more surface area for the bacteria to grow and thrive.

So yes, experience does matter. But, we also know that sometimes we learn our best lessons from the mistakes we make, so, maybe that’s where our “experience” comes from. Sorry for sounding harsh.

 

[brokensword]

Hmmmm….. Maybe you need to hop over to KOIPHEN.COM. THOSE are the guys who very successfully handle overstocked ponds. They have what we refer to as DKP’s, or dedicated koi ponds. For the most part, they have very sophisticated filtration setups, consisting of multiple exterior filters, settlement chambers, bottom drains, etc. Most of these setups take up a good bit of real estate. But, they can feed their koi multiple times per day, and have pristine water. They also have very regimented care routines and check their water parameters frequently.

The trick is not by having “multiple box filters” inside the pond. The trick is having a good pump that will take your water to an effective filtration system. As @Lisak1 said, while mechanical filtration is important, it’s the biological filtration that keeps the pond alive — literally. It’s all about surface area for the beneficial bacteria. An overstocked pond will require more surface area for the bacteria to grow and thrive.

So yes, experience does matter. But, we also know that sometimes we learn our best lessons from the mistakes we make, so, maybe that’s where our “experience” comes from. Sorry for sounding harsh.

Thing is, I bet none of the 'koiphen experts' are doing this in 1000 gallos or less!

 

[anthony21078]

If you choose to go this route, be aware that you will also need to closely monitor water quality. Things can go upside down very quickly.

I'm not sure what you mean by "box filter" - can you explain what those are?

The filtration you need to increase is the biological filtration - mechanical filtration is important but isn't the critical factor. A bog will add biological filtration, as will plants in the pond. The filter pads in your skimmer and waterfall will add to the biological filtration IF you're handling them correctly (specifically NOT rinsing with chlorinated water). However, the only way to know for sure if you're at the right level of filtration is water testing. Keeping a very careful eye on what's going on with the water will be most important. And knowing what to do if something goes wrong.

I have the full api kit and randomly check the water parameters now. Water changes are another easy task that can be completed quickly and as often as I need.

The box filters I have on the bottom of the pond are from tetra. I have 2 and each box has 3 pads. Skimmer and waterfall have filter pads also.

I understand the biological filtration aspect and when I was referring to an additional large filter box to be placed outside the pond, I was talking about pump/filter combo that has numerous filter pads/bio balls enclosed in the filter. Something similar to this

Amazon.com

I need to increase the overall biological filter surface area maybe 2-4x of what I have now. A large filter with numerous pads is what I believe will help.

 

[anthony21078]

Hmmmm….. Maybe you need to hop over to KOIPHEN.COM. THOSE are the guys who very successfully handle overstocked ponds. They have what we refer to as DKP’s, or dedicated koi ponds. For the most part, they have very sophisticated filtration setups, consisting of multiple exterior filters, settlement chambers, bottom drains, etc. Most of these setups take up a good bit of real estate. But, they can feed their koi multiple times per day, and have pristine water. They also have very regimented care routines and check their water parameters frequently.

The trick is not by having “multiple box filters” inside the pond. The trick is having a good pump that will take your water to an effective filtration system. As @Lisak1 said, while mechanical filtration is important, it’s the biological filtration that keeps the pond alive — literally. It’s all about surface area for the beneficial bacteria. An overstocked pond will require more surface area for the bacteria to grow and thrive.

So yes, experience does matter. But, we also know that sometimes we learn our best lessons from the mistakes we make, so, maybe that’s where our “experience” comes from. Sorry for sounding harsh.

KOIPHEN is great, lots of information.

I keep saying box filter....well, it is a box with several filter pads. Biological filtration is occurring on those pads. I need more filter pads to increase overall biological filtration surface area. I figure a 3000-5000gph submersible pump in the pond center that flows to a large filtration box outside the pond is enough. Like these.... https://webbsonline.com/Category/Filter-Kits-Water-Garden-Filtration-Combo

My fish are important to me and I don't have problem spending money on a large pump/filter

I was looking for a ballpark number on how much more GPH's of flow I would need to accommodate the new koi. I suppose bigger is better

 

[anthony21078]

Thing is, I bet none of the 'koiphen experts' are doing this in 1000 gallos or less!

After reading through quite a few koiphen threads that spoke about overstocking in small ponds, I would beg to differ....

 

[mrsclem]

I understand the biological filtration aspect and when I was referring to an additional large filter box to be placed outside the pond, I was talking about pump/filter combo that has numerous filter pads/bio balls enclosed in the filter. Something similar to this
Amazon.com

I would be interested to see how many gallons they rate that for with a heavy fish load. The 5000 gallons states clearly- No fish!
My current pond is about 3800 gallons, 3 adult koi- 18-24" and 2 dozen younger koi -6-15". 500 gallon bog, Savio waterfall filter and 2 55 gallon drum filters. If you want to spend every day trying to prevent issues, that's fine and totally your choice. Most people prefer to make their pond an enjoyment, not a job.

 

[anthony21078]

I would be interested to see how many gallons they rate that for with a heavy fish load. The 5000 gallons states clearly- No fish!
My current pond is about 3800 gallons, 3 adult koi- 18-24" and 2 dozen younger koi -6-15". 500 gallon bog, Savio waterfall filter and 2 55 gallon drum filters. If you want to spend every day trying to prevent issues, that's fine and totally your choice. Most people prefer to make their pond an enjoyment, not a job.

OASE BioSmart 10000

The BioSmart undertakes both biological and mechanical filtration and offers maximum oxygenation. With a sludge drain that makes for easy removal of coarse debris, the BioSmart is built for work - there is no need to remove or manually unclog the filter foams.

store.oase-usa.com

Max. Pond Size (no fish)	10000 gallons
Max. Pond Size (fish stock)	5000 gallons
Max. Pond Size (Koi)	2500 gallons

 

[mrsclem]

Ya, link you posted was Oase 5000. Will look forward to see how things go for you.

 

[Jhn]

Would add a container bog before I would add an off the shelf filter. A bog even a container bog that is in say a 150 gallon stock tank isn’t that big of an endeavor and will help maintain water quality much better than that Oase filter.

 

[brokensword]

Would add a container bog before I would add an off the shelf filter. A bog even a container bog that is in say a 150 gallon stock tank isn’t that big of an endeavor and will help maintain water quality much better than that Oase filter.

@Jhn ; wouldn't you say that with a bog, you could safely triple the number of koi in this pond???

 

[Jhn]

@Jhn ; wouldn't you say that with a bog, you could safely triple the number of koi in this pond???

I would

 

[anthony21078]

why only triple when you can quadruple? I like where this is going

 

[mrsclem]

How many koi did you add and what size?

 

[Lisak1]

Would add a container bog before I would add an off the shelf filter.

This is the reason we chose a bog when we built our pond. We were told that an appropriately sized bog will add as much biological filtration to a pond as 6 standard filters with pads. I didn't have room for six filters, so bog it was!

 

[Nevermore44]

My pond is around 1k. I have currently 1 wakin goldfish and then 10 koi ranging from 16 down to 8 inches. As originally planned, each year or two I re-home one koi as they get bigger. I feed them one to two times a day. My water is clear and my numbers are spot on.

What makes it work for me is the sand and gravel filter and secondary shower filter I built many years back now. If you are semi handy, they are easy to make and don’t cost a lot. Now they aren’t pretty compared to bog gardens, but you can set them up away from the pond since they only rely on gravity for a return and they do an amazing job of physically removing debris and fish waste as well as acting as giant bio filters reducing nitrates.

Having to haul out of the pond and clean pad filters is an absolute pain which makes one not want to clean them… which leads to water issues… which leads to fish health issues. The sand and gravel filter is easy to clean and doesn’t take much time and you don’t have to even get your hands wet if you don’t want. With the heavy fish load and feeding I clean mine about every other week or so to keep my nitrate level down. I never have a blip of ammonia or nitrites.

Here’s a pic of the pond. It goes under the bridge there and to the left. It’s three feet deep at the lowest area where the submerged pump is. The filter set up shows the 55gallon drum on the left is the sand and gravel filter which then spills over to the smaller shower filter drum that has feather rock. I’m planning on eventually moving them both around the corner of the home by my rain barrels.

I have the “cage” opened up here in the pic. Typically it’s down to protect from the herons.