An alternative, better, approach to a bog. Anoxic Filtration.

[crsublette]

You’re like so many others that expect something for nothing and I don’t mean that as an insult or an attack on you. Now hear this, I’m doing this for FREE…get it! I do not have a website this belong to a fellow in the UK not me. I’m not marketing anything, selling anything, are trying to even push my system on to others. FYI, I didn’t evening place my system on the web someone else did, but not me! I was very happy living my life with only hobbyist in Illinois using my system. Then a hobbyist from another state insisted that I come on a website and help other understand the Anoxic system, I did so reluctantly. Everything you have mentioned to me about testing and so on is right now my property except those by hobbyist and it will stay that way. It is for my eyes only; unless you want to buy the info from me, so I can make money like everyone else does on this planet.

If you think its so simple coming up with something new and out of the ordinary in filtrating water that’s cheep, then do so. You do all the research and development spend your money and years of your time then come on the internet an give it away for free to all of us. Plus don’t forget to write a book and give it away for free, too. Don’t forget about mailing out 5000 copies of that book to the world for free coming out of your pocket, that should be a piece of cake, right? Oh! And those research papers and testing reports I’ll take some of them too for free. I will be the first one in line to get one of your free cd-books on your new filter.

This is why books are published and there are scholarly repositories where premiums are paid to view disertations and various other thesis and research.

If you truely want to give an option for consumers to buy your research, then put it up on the market. It does not have to be fancy. There are even methods of doing this by paying for access per user.

Look at my bio. Look at how honest, open of a guy I have been. My cellphone number is 8062681970. Why can't you be the same by not overlooking questions ?? In the software technology world, there has been a tremendous innovations made by the open source community who mostly just ask for donations or reasonable premiums. If you want to get paid better for your research, then there are avenues available for you.

Every time someone comes on one of these forums and tell everyone that they use the Anoxic Filtration system they get the third degree from everyone. It’s your own fault that people don’t want to tell you anything on these forums because you chastise them for not thinking your way. Look what everyone is doing to me right now!

What are you talking about? Now you are ranting much like Waterbug did previously at me.

Mr. Novak, who is the one being chastised here? (( other than me maybe for giving this a chance ))

I definitely spread the word about absolutely everything I learn. All I have gathered here about anoxic filtration is that it is a better implemented and a better explained version of a "bog". As even YOU admit in your initial posts, the bog has shown to function quite fine for a period of time depending on the biomass load in the water.

Why not go beyond e-mail, with an open discourse, maybe on a strictly moderated thread? This is definitely feasible. I know Leekinneykoi at Koiphen would do this for you if you only asked him. He already starting doing this through a thread he has started at Those that built a Anoxic Filter, how about some updates. I bet he would even make the thread even more moderated then he has this one by simply deleting the post like mine it, that may appear to show some dissent.

At least, you have allowed someone to finally upload the information about your system on the internet, in this 21st century, so I could stop hearing the stone age nonesense of "send me an e-mail and you'll get a free cd", and continue to be involved with the forums.

I understand why you would be aggravated, but I do not understand why can not act beyond the aggravation to promote innovation in the pond hobby.

I am becoming quite irritated with how questions can not be answered directly. Answering questions would be much better marketing for your system instead of going on a defensive rant that most definitely will disuade the skeptics.

Now, I don't think it is terrible public relation guidance. Now, I just simply believe that you have been acting too much like a politican, that is protecting his own interests on election day, before any altruistic concern. Yeah, you are FREE with the content as long as it does not harm your interests.

This is starting to act like the barley straw papers that show the immense ineffectiveness of the product. Yet, the product is still is sold without issue. Eventually, if the rendition of the anoxic filtration does become more popular in the pond industry, then I gaurantee you there will be independent studies performed to verify its validity in the pond industry. So, you can hold your research close to vest as much as you like, but the truth of the matter will eventually be released, if it has not been already.

Dr. Novak, I am doing my best to be fair to you, but you are making this to be an extremely difficult stance for me to maintain due to your defensive rants, which is quite offensive to those who want to learn something.

I appreciate the posts you have submited. They have noticeably expanded my understanding in this pond hobby. If this has come to an end now due to these last few posts, then this is unfortunate and I will just have to agree to disagree until more information is shared. At least, I am glad you continue to answer some questions that presented to you in your e-mails.

 

[Waterbug]

You’re like so many others that expect something for nothing and I don’t mean that as an insult or an attack on you.

Oh my, how could I possibly take that as an insult?

Now hear this, I’m doing this for FREE…get it! I do not have a website this belong to a fellow in the UK not me. I’m not marketing anything, selling anything, are trying to even push my system on to others. FYI, I didn’t evening place my system on the web someone else did, but not me!

Yes, that is very good of you to offer your experiences for free...and it is your prerogative to then refuse to actually share those experiences. You came here posting your theories...it's a forum...members can ask questions...that's the way it works.

I was very happy living my life with only hobbyist in Illinois using my system. Then a hobbyist from another state insisted that I come on a website and help other understand the Anoxic system, I did so reluctantly. Everything you have mentioned to me about testing and so on is right now my property except those by hobbyist and it will stay that way. It is for my eyes only; unless you want to buy the info from me, so I can make money like everyone else does on this planet.

OK, so much for FREE, again, your prerogative. How much do you want for your research?

 

[Waterbug]

What are you talking about? Now you are ranting much like Waterbug did previously at me.

Nice rant Charles. Less time pointing fingers would give you more ranting time. But of course ranting is only something other people do. Thank goodness there are people willing to go that extra mile and judge who is ranting and who isn't and take the time to let us all know. We'd be lost otherwise.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Now now, Charles, Dan, Kevin.... I want you all to say sorry to each other and start playing nice, or else there'll be no cake and ice cream for you tonight.

 

[crsublette]

Nice rant Charles. Less time pointing fingers would give you more ranting time. But of course ranting is only something other people do. Thank goodness there are people willing to go that extra mile and judge who is ranting and who isn't and take the time to let us all know. We'd be lost otherwise.

Oh, I completely admit I went on a rant there and I am not going to deny it and not going to crack wise.

Thank you Mucky. You're a good guy. :beerchug: It's Dos Equis time.

 

[anoxic101]

This is why books are published and there are scholarly repositories where premiums are paid to view disertations and various other thesis and research.

If you truely want to give an option for consumers to buy your research, then put it up on the market. It does not have to be fancy. There are even methods of doing this by paying for access per user.

Look at my bio. Look at how honest, open of a guy I have been. My cellphone number is 8062681970. Why can't you be the same by not overlooking questions ?? In the software technology world, there has been a tremendous innovations made by the open source community who mostly just ask for donations or reasonable premiums. If you want to get paid better for your research, then there are avenues available for you.




What are you talking about? Now you are ranting much like Waterbug did previously at me.

Mr. Novak, who is the one being chastised here? (( other than me maybe for giving this a chance ))

I definitely spread the word about absolutely everything I learn. All I have gathered here about anoxic filtration is that it is a better implemented and a better explained version of a "bog". As even YOU admit in your initial posts, the bog has shown to function quite fine for a period of time depending on the biomass load in the water.

Why not go beyond e-mail, with an open discourse, maybe on a strictly moderated thread? This is definitely feasible. I know Leekinneykoi at Koiphen would do this for you if you only asked him. He already starting doing this through a thread he has started at Those that built a Anoxic Filter, how about some updates. I bet he would even make the thread even more moderated then he has this one by simply deleting the post like mine it, that may appear to show some dissent.

At least, you have allowed someone to finally upload the information about your system on the internet, in this 21st century, so I could stop hearing the stone age nonesense of "send me an e-mail and you'll get a free cd", and continue to be involved with the forums.

I understand why you would be aggravated, but I do not understand why can not act beyond the aggravation to promote innovation in the pond hobby.

I am becoming quite irritated with how questions can not be answered directly. Answering questions would be much better marketing for your system instead of going on a defensive rant that most definitely will disuade the skeptics.

Now, I don't think it is terrible public relation guidance. Now, I just simply believe that you have been acting too much like a politican, that is protecting his own interests on election day, before any altruistic concern. Yeah, you are FREE with the content as long as it does not harm your interests.

This is starting to act like the barley straw papers that show the immense ineffectiveness of the product. Yet, the product is still is sold without issue. Eventually, if the rendition of the anoxic filtration does become more popular in the pond industry, then I gaurantee you there will be independent studies performed to verify its validity in the pond industry. So, you can hold your research close to vest as much as you like, but the truth of the matter will eventually be released, if it has not been already.

Dr. Novak, I am doing my best to be fair to you, but you are making this to be an extremely difficult stance for me to maintain due to your defensive rants, which is quite offensive to those who want to learn something.

I appreciate the posts you have submited. They have noticeably expanded my understanding in this pond hobby. If this has come to an end now due to these last few posts, then this is unfortunate and I will just have to agree to disagree until more information is shared. At least, I am glad you continue to answer some questions that presented to you in your e-mails.

You are now being obtuse and naive about the social system and how it really works. You still don’t understand Free do you! You think you know so much. Its not Mr. Novak it is Dr. Novak, if you can’t get my name right how are you able to get anything else your saying right. The world is not as easy as it seems. Read what I said; I had no intentions of introducing the Anoxic Filtration System to the world someone else did that, can’t you comprehend what your read?

With that I will now part from this forum like I did Koiphen. For those that really wanted knowledge about the system then staying here, well it just will not happen.


I know you; you emailed me and wanted to know if you could build a bog around the Biocenosis baskets. That why you’re being so obtuse, you own a pond business.

 

[crsublette]

Yep, I was writing Mr. instead of Dr. for purpose. Also, unfortunate you wanted to make that fictitious email statement and I do not own a pond business. I farm for a living. I'm the guy that is making it possible so you can enjoy some good steaks, if that's your thing. You can even look me up under "Sublette Farms"; give me a yell if you know someone who needs some work done.

Nice Mr. Novak, leaving with such of a mature exit.


For those with questions, I am told Dr. Novak is now available again with the good people at KKU.

 

[Fishylove]

Ok...... Well, now that the Pissing contest is over I still dont know if i have got everything I need to continue with this!
You know there are other people on this forum who want to learn. And not everyone NEEDS to know ALL details and all "DATA" on EVERYTHING! Read this Carefully-----I DON'T CARE IF YOU THINK THIS IS A GLORIFIED BOG! I WAS BUILDING A BOG ANYWAY! IF IT DOES'NT WORK, THE MOST I'LL BE OUT IS KITTY LITTER...I DO NOT CARE HOW THIS THING WORKS AS LONG AS IT WORKS! Do Not get me wrong, you have every right to question; this is a public forum. But DR NOVAK ( and we call him that because, anyone who goes thru the amount of education and has the credentials he does, deserves to be called by his title! ) has every right to answer your questions Without giving up all of the intimate details of his research that you two were Demanding. I have just as much right to believe in DR NOVAK as you both do to have your doubts... Am I wrong??!? But you two have ruined that, with your accusatory comments and pretentious Egos, and Now...He's gone. As water bug so eloquently put it in a previous post on this thread, "That is that", .... isn't it ?

 

[crsublette]

I have just as much right to believe in DR NOVAK as you both do to have your doubts... Am I wrong??!? But you two have ruined that, with your accusatory comments and pretentious Egos, and Now...He's gone. As water bug so eloquently put it in a previous post on this thread, "That is that", .... isn't it ?

Only if you want it to be.

The hyperlinks I posted, that started all this, is still very valid. The 2nd koiphen thread, titled "anoxic filtration", is actually very helpful. There are quite a few questions answered by Mr. Novak. Even though the instruction in his PDF files are tough to follow, the article by Syd Mitchel explains it very good. I guess the email on the PDF files are still valid so you can email him your questions, sounds like he still responds to them.

That's fine you only care how things look, rather than how they work. Nothing wrong with this. We're fine fixing your problems when they eventually will happen.

I enjoy being educated with the intricacies of all this and what actually happens so I know what to do when problems happen. Nothing wrong with this either.

KKU also provides a nice forum section that is entirely dedicated to the anoxic system, which is a bit wierd and fine. I'm registered there as well. They have some good info there. Good people there with plenty of experience with the setup more than willing to answer any of your questions. It is my understanding the KKU forum section is strictly moderated so to keep "ego", as you call it, out of it.

 

[Waterbug]

Fishylove,
Whether it works or not is kind of the issue. If you don't care to know anything about it why not just build it to the spec given? Pretty clear instructions, not very complex. Drop it into your pond and 15 days later no nitrate or phosphate. Can't beat that. And I'd be happy to hear your results because while I currently don't think it's plausible I'm still interested in learning more.

Demanding info???????????????? What thread are you reading?

Please, please believe Dr Novak if you like....how is that any of my business? Why in the world would I care even a tiny bit whether you or anyone believes him or not? You think people discussing something in a thread is somehow trying to convince you of something? It's your pond. I'll never even see...has nothing to do with me. How could I possibly care any less? Despite what Dr Novak thinks I'm not paid by the Anti-Dr Novak Consortium to travel the world convincing people he's some evil dude. I just wanted to know about his filter...the one he said he wanted to explain.

You might want to keep in mind Dr Novak started this pissing contest by calling me a lair even though all I did was repeat what he said in his own words. And yeah, once someone pisses on me I have no problem jumping into the contest and let the pissing contest begin. If Dr Novak didn't want a pissing contest he should have kept his fly zipped. I treated him with nothing but respect right up until he unzipped.

It happens a lot....people post some back handed comment and think people shouldn't get pissed...that people should just take their crap. That bs.

 

[crsublette]

Actually interesting to read how this thread began. How I was Dr. this and Dr. that and "oh thank you" Dr and "can you clarify this question for me" Dr.

He only would answer TWO out of the many questions I have asked. I have other very legit, not rhetorical, looking for clarification, type of questions. Why picking and choosing to answer questions like this? What is he afraid he might share?

Then everything changed with the little fire started in post#55 and then the fuel being thrown on at post#57 and then the defensiveness in post#75 was the last straw to me. Everything just went down hill. I don't care if he feels offended; Mr. Novak could have acted like his title, simply taken a step back, kept this on point, but he wanted to become extremely defensive.

Mr. Novak's personality type is one of the many hinderances to innovation. My opinion is that he does not deserve the title, regardless of the time spent in intelligencia to earn it, but I was trying to be nice in hoping I would be proven wrong.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Charles, my water does not get acid because of two main reasons, the very large plants drink lots of water during the hot summer so I have to replenish the pond with fresh water from the hose, which is very very hard water as that is just the way Medicine Hat water is. The second reason is Medicine Hat does get dry winds quite often that also suck out lots of water too.

During the extreme cold winter the water is also heated and that can cause lots of evaportion also, when its minus 35 or colder and the water is heated the difference between the cold air and warm water is like a kettle of the stove, and the steam just rises.

I am quite aware of acid water, as I have a fish tank in my bedroom with upsidedown catfish, which also has been running for at least 22 years, and they seem to like the water in the acid side, but I do water changes in that tank cause their is not enough evaporation naturally. I also can tell very quickly by just observing the snails shells if the water is too acid as the snail shells break down when the water is too acid. The water is never too acid in my ponds. Too much evaportion outside and hard Medicine Hat water fixes that.

I don't think there is any one way to run a pond, what works for me won't always work for others. There are too many variables with every pond.

I also am interested in this anoxic filter, will have to look into it more. I have all kinds of different filters and some are over 22 years old and still work good. I use different filters for different situations. Will talk about some of my old filters later....

 

[crsublette]

I agree with ya Colleen. "What works for someone might not work for someone else."

From reading everything here and other places, I have come to understand filtration is more about comfort and budget rather than quality and time savings

I very much like my dad's 1959 chevrolet. It's an old car. My dad tinkers with it. Tries to keep it authentic. It runs just fine 53 years later. It still gets us from Point A to Point B. I would not want it to be primary vehicle because I kind of understand how its built and it does not match my comfort level and I like to get to where I want to get fast.

I completely agree regarding Mr. Novak's explanations on conventional fiters. I think he overstates the negatives of conventional filters such as, from his chapter 1 PDF, page 3, first paragraph, "submerged filters require a 3 micron pre-filter to stop clogging". I'm still going to try out this system of Mr. Novaks, building it exactly as prescribed, and I am hoping for the best. It will be awesome if I can keep a high fish load in my small watergarden with only bio-filter that is this simple.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I also don't have a very high fish load, thanks to that blue heron that ate lots of the smaller fish 2 summers ago, although some of the koi in the middle pond have grown quite large the last couple years. I have been thinking of building an "add on" eventually to the collection of connecting ponds that I already have. You will have to let us know how the new filter does with a high fish load.

I did want to mention that I have these very large old black sponges that "Sera Water Gardens" used to sell over 21 years ago, that I still use today on some of the smaller pumps. This one filter that I have is in the bottom pond and I have not had to clean it in years, never seems to get dirty at all and the pump flows well. Only this one pump with with one black sponge filter, the other filters I have to clean every now and then. I reason it works so well is that it is placed under the Sweet flag roots (Acorus calamus), in the bottom pond. Some times when I check that filter the roots of that plant "hang on" to the filter. It's kinda neat how well it works, the plant and the filter together. I should also mention that pump and filter run year round, even under the ice.

 

[Dave 54]

Here we go again we have the doubters to Dr Novaks system it doesnt take that long for them to crawl out of the woodwork and start attacking the system which is so very sad indeed
If at all you doubt that the anoxic filter system does then may I suggest you join us at KKU and talk to the members there that do have Dr Novaks system up and running and working well, would that be testimony enough for you then ?.
Comfort and budget poppy cock many have turned to this system after employing what are supposedly the best fiter systems money can buy others because it has a far greener footprint than many fitersystems and still others because it is different and a talking piece when people visit their ponds but at least your willing to try it.
Dr Novak gets alot of abuse by people from all around the koi world, KKU was recent;ly attacked and all anoxic data removed nothing else just the anoxic thread strange to say the least and this isnt the first tme its been removed from a site the sytem generated over 48.680 hits in just under nineteen months, now that is some interest .
As Super moderator I have to ask myself why was it only that thread that was targeted, it seems very strange indeed that this should happen was it his message was getting through to too many people after 19 months of operation?
He doesnt have to spend hours perday defending himself nor is he the only koi professional that backs this system, some that I've known for many years am in regular contact with and trust in any adivice given out by them .
I personally believe the good Doctors claims, for one hes a Dr of Ichtheoloy which unless we go to university is a level to where any of us will never get.at worst we become bad hobbyists at best good ones ( there are a mixture of those on anysite you choose to go on they dont normally last too long in our hobby, bad ponders we call them many of them dont even bother to read up on their subject before starting out and its folks like ourselves and other like minded keepers that end up helping them out and even then they dont listen) that isn't knocking pondkkepeers who do read up on their subject bad ponders dont last that long in the hobby .
The good ones for whom its a passion go on for most of their lives and at 26 years in the hobby in the hobby my partner and I fall into the good catergory .
Why put that carrer on the line if he didn't believe what he is talking about he has followers around the world the problem he has is where people cannot make it work because they have gotten what he says wrong in the first place.
Why attack him eh instead talk to the man I've been on other sites and he gets the same everywhere he goes somepeople get it others dont .
We are all entitiled to our opinions quite frankly some on here will never get it , its not an attack on anyone just an observation I'm not the attacking type but it seems the doubters always get their say so over those who get down get dirty and really give his system the chance it deserves, its human nature to doubt what we cant understand but I've believed in this sytem since I first came across i years ago.
Sadly due to the footprint of my pond and Val's disability garden we cannot fit it but we do have a person in Plymouth who runs such a system, thats all I need to know.
Knock the good Doctor if you so wish you wont be the first or last to do so if not get down and really try to understand the message he is putting across I can garentee, you get things right and you'll find it does work .

rgrds

Dave