Archaea-The not so new Kids-on-the-Block

[tbendl]

Maybe I should start marketing my old shoes filled with benonite clay,,,,???

Like a "clay-o-croc"?

 

[Dave 54]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I'm glad you are currently having no weekly water quality issues, but it begs the question, what sort of water quality issues were you having before that you feel was solved by the use of this Microbe_lift product?
To answer your question as to "why you think this is nothing but expensive snake oil". . I'll say that it is only the bacteria contents of these products that I outright reject. Many of these products contain flocculating agents as well as certain enzymes and nutrients which are beneficial for a healthy bacteria colony, so I logically can't argue that these additives are "useless", but I could argue that it would make more sense, both effectively and cost wise, for most people to purchase those things separately. Take the flocculating agents, in many cases this is simple benonite clay (Koi Clay) and there are a number reasons adding clay can be beneficial to some pond not only in clarifying the water, but in adding nutrients for the fish and bacteria. I suppose if the amount of clay in in one of these product was high enough, and the dosage large enough, you might reap some of the benefits of adding clay to your pond, like from the water clarifying (flocculating) effects of the clay. There are also certain nutrients in benonite clay that nitrifying bacteria need to convert the nitrogen as well. (read here) However I'm sure it would be much cheaper to just use a product like Koi Clay, or better yet, just buy some bulk benonite clay for this purpose.
The "bacteria" ingredients on the other hand, just don't add up. The only effective way you could transport a significantly viable nitriying bacteria colony would be to transport some sort of media with an established bacteria colony on it, and transport it in such a way that the bacteria colony would remain actively alive which would mean keeping the media moist and well oxygenated. That would preclude transporting them in an airtight bottle.
I have mentioned this before, if take some of your established bio-media out of your pond and seal it in a plastic bag for a couple days and then open it and smell it, it will have a rotten egg smell of hydrogen sulphide (H2S). This is because all the aerobic (oxygen loving) beneficial bacteria growing on the media will die (or go dormant) in the oxygen starved environment, and the anaerobic (oxygen hating) bacteria will begin to grow, and one of their main byproduct is H2S, which is why you'll smell that rotten eggs smell.
The main thing to remember here is that both types of bacteria will always be present in both conditions. In order for the anaerobic bacteria to start growing in the sealed plastic bag you don't have to seed it with any special bottle of "bacteria", you just have to seal the bag and create an oxygen less environment.
Going back to what you touched on regarding the treatment of human waste. I took a couple courses on waste water treatment and worked pretty closely with some people in the field in work camp type conditions where the utilize portable waste water treatment plants ranging in size from 20 person treatment units to larger 600 person treatment plants. If ever there was a situation where getting your biological activity up and running quickly these portable waste water treatment plant would be it. In no cases did they ever add any kind of bottled or packaged bacteria products to their system. In all cases they either relied on the bacteria that was present in the waste water itself, or they transferred active bio-media, and or activated sludge along with the treatment plant, or from one existing treatment plant to another. When I asked the professionals in the field who ran these treatment plants if they ever added any sort of pre-packaged bacteria products, like those found in stores, they would laugh and say those things are not necessary, and even gave reasons similar to what I've been repeating, why they wouldn't really work anyway. What they said dovetailed perfectly with what I learned in my waste water course regarding the addition of bacteria.
The simple fact is, all the bacteria you need for a bio-filter in a pond, or a waste water treatment plant will always be present in the water itself, and the waste products you are trying to treat. If you want to get a higher concentration of the bacteria up and running faster, you must either transfer it via activated bio-media, or activated sludge. You can't put it in a sealed box or bottle, store it on a shelf and expect to be able to use it in any practical way later, because the waste water or the fish poop you are trying to treat will likely contain more of the activated bacteria you are trying to treat then the bottle of snake oil you are dumping into your pond.
Peeing in your pond would probably do as much, or more, good then adding a bottle of Microbe-Lift as far as the bacteria are concerned.

Mucky why the sudden attack eh my friend , if you must know Idont have water quality issues never had never will and yes I throw clay in the pond am I a slave to any product the answer is no , I quoted our liking of the Microbe_lift PL because of what I see before my eyes and the trouble free fish keeping we get from adding it after every filter clean .
At this moment in time however does it or doesnt it work is the furthest from my mind my friend and probably wont be for a few days at least whilst we remember a dear departed friend .

Dave

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Mucky why the sudden attack eh my friend , if you must know Idont have water quality issues never had never will and yes I throw clay in the pond am I a slave to any product the answer is no , I quoted our liking of the Microbe_lift PL because of what I see before my eyes and the trouble free fish keeping we get from adding it after every filter clean .
At this moment in time however does it or doesnt it work is the furthest from my mind my friend and probably wont be for a few days at least whilst we remember a dear departed friend .

Dave

I"m sorry you feel I was somehow attacking you Dave. I was simply looking for some logical reason why you felt Microbe-lift was giving you "100% satisfaction".
You said it was because since you started using it you've had no water quality issues after cleaning your filters. It seems logical to assume that you were having water quality issues before you started using it. That's why I asked what water quality issues you feel it was helping you with???
If now you say you had no water quality issues before you started using it, and you have none now after using it, then we can only conclude that it is really doing nothing for you except costing you money.
Not trying to attack you, I'm just trying to follow the logic.

 

[Dave 54]

Oh I see, Mucky no I've never had problems with my water but by using Microbe_lift I've found that the water is that much clearer , the colours of our koi that much deeper .
The reason we started using it is simple I had heard so much about this product so I thought we'd give it a whirl , its wanting the best for our koi that is the at the heart of things.
I've found changes to our pond that says that at least the Microbe_lift PL filter pad innoculant gel is doing its job , the Microbe_lift sludge buster did its job in the spring so I cannot fault this product .

Dave