Black shubunkins and pond update

[MajorDan]

I started my pond in 2019 with five 2-nch shubunkins. Two mostly white with some orange spots, 2 mostly orange with blue and black spots and one blue, black and orange speckled. I meant to get just three, but the pond shop offered me five for the same price. Now that I am more experienced, I realize they just wanted to get rid of the fish no one wanted. ANYWAY, the water was solid green the first year until my bog started working. Late that first year, the water cleared and we discovered a bunch of babies from several spawns during the summer. The next spring, I was cleaning out the upper pond that is solid plants, AND I found two black babies in that pond. I moved them to the big pond. Later on, I found two more black ones and even later I found one more...all solid black. I read somewhere that if the babies are not exposed to light they do not develop colors and stay dark. Maybe that is true as the upper pond is deep but truely solid plants top to bottom with a solid cap of red ludwigia with hornwort to the bottom.

So I now had five black shubunkins that were the result of eggs being sucked into the skimmer, through the pump and pipes and dumped into the upper pond. Maybe the eggs got damaged during this process and that is why they all were black.

My five, formerly solid black shubunkins of various sizes from 11/2 to 3 inches, have recently started changing colors. Not the normal shubunkin colors though. They are very dark, reddish- brown on top and golden yellow on the bottom. There coloration makes them all but invisible in the pond.

I now have 18 shubunkins in the pond. The five originals all about 8+ inches and a variety of sizes for the rest. Of them I have five almost all white ones and the rest black, blue and orange. Several of them have a more golden-orange and the others a red-orange. Of the five originals, there is one white and one mostly orange females. So the black ones likely came from these two.

You may be asking, why am I posting all this information. Well when I first started someone thought they had a bass in there pond. I now believe they just had one of these black babies that changed to the color I mentioned above. Second, I am considering removing all the formerly black fish as they are now large enough to spawn and I really do not want or need any more black ones. They are hard to see in the pond and probably will never develop the beautiful colors of the other fish.

In case the skimmer, pump trip is what caused the five to end up black, I have decided to turn the upper-pond into another bog and eliminate the possibiliy of any eggs developing there in the future and producing more black babies.

Lastly, my pond has provided great entertainment and enjoyment from the family and the neighborhood children. I am so glad we put it in. Now that the bog is working great, there isn't much in the way of maintenance and the water stays very clear. I am looking forward to repotting my water lillies and the other plants in the pond.

Fall last year below.

This year with two dark fish at the bottom and one in the middle top of the photo. The brown color can be seen on the middle top fish that is surfacing

 

[Lisak1]

I think you just have off-spring that reverted back to their more natural color. Sometimes they will eventually change color; other times they stay that golden/black color. I don't think it really has anything to do with light, as I'll get brightly colored ones and the dark colored ones in the same season. Good luck getting them to stop reproducing - that's one thing they're very good at!

 

[addy1]

I have a lot of the dark, gold, grayish fish. They have beautiful long flowing fins, welcome to live in the pond. Still have a lot of water room. I would need to drain the pond to even catch them all and I would just end up with more down the road.

 

[jmajid]

nice... we have one salt and pepper shubunkin and she is one of the hardest to find in the pond due to her colors, but also one of the ones we look for to see her long flowing fins and tail.

 

[brokensword]

@MajorDan just to illustrate, below is Moby through the years, one of my original shubunkins, purchased in 2011. Goldfish, even the dark ones, can change, or not. I have some fry from ~2012 that are still dark with bronze bellies while others have changed to orange over the years. Some of my Sarassas have developed and lost white or orange.

2015

2020 September

2021 current

 

[MajorDan]

wow, hopefully my shubunkins will find some shine someday. Your fish are awesome.

 

[MajorDan]

Well it has been awhile so I thought an update is do. The pond is doing great, clear water and good chemistry, the bog plants are doing great and the fish are fat and sassy. The black fish are now mostly reddish brown and the largest one now has a bunch of bright orange scales on his head. Two frogs have showed up along with a small southern black racer. The snake likes the bog as he can disappear under all the plants whenever frightened. The snake also likes to sun on the rocks...which is anytime there is some sunshine.
I am in the process of emptying my small upper pond to turn it into a bog with about 6 inches of water over the gravel filter. I hope to get a different group of plants in this bog to add some variety.
The variegated water celery I planted in the bog last year has taken over. One little plant has grown to cover the entire bog with the taller rushes etc poking up through it. The water celery will need constant pruning as it grows very fast and keeps escaping the pond.
No new fish so far this year which is good as I have about 20 and that seems like a good number for my pond. I did lose two of the smalls ones from last years spawning.
Finally, I was sorry to see so many empty black japenese trap door snail shells. So many were lost over the winter and we had a mild one. So far I only found two that survived. I am not planning on getting anymore.

 

[brokensword]

I put some snails in once and never saw them again; I think the fish had es cargo! Shame too as I liked such diverisity! If you're going to have 6" of water over your gravel, it'll cut down on the types/quantity of plants you can have as most like to have their crowns above or at the water line. Pickerel rush and flag iris should do okay. Just make sure the plants you want to have, you research first for this parameter.

I bet you'll have stories in the future telling of how your goldfish changed color on you! For a few early years, I bet 1/3 of my gf herd was dark. Now, I bet I'm down to 15% or so. They show against the larger percentage of orange and orange+white ones now.

If you like frogs, you might want to relocate that snake! My pond is enclosed and I once had a snake get in. Took the time to find all the small holes it must have used and now, because I LIKE my frogs, snakes are ver boten.

Glad your pond is clear and all your plants are thriviing--surely a sign of success!

 

[addy1]

Finally, I was sorry to see so many empty black japenese trap door snail shells. So many were lost over the winter and we had a mild one. So far I only found two that survived. I am not planning on getting anymore.

I put in 100 years ago, have them everywhere. I do find empty shells, but also have some the size of golf balls. Give them time to they will do fine. My pod is deep which keeps the raccoons from eating them.

 

[MajorDan]

My yard is fenced and my pond has a net over it mostly because of herons. I found the snail shells on the bottom of the pond so maybe they starved over the winter.
We have lots of small lakes around our house that brings lots of visitors...herons, egrits, hawks, raccoons, possums, coyotes and armadillos so we have to keep an eye on any new holes in the 5-foot fence. Last year rabbits chewed holes in the fence and ravaged my wife's garden before I figured out where they got in. Also relocated two raccoons, many armadillos and a possom. So we are always on the lookout for strange occurances around the pond.

 

[addy1]

I watch them crawl over the cam lens doing a cleaning job, fun to watch!

 

[mrsclem]

Watch out for the water celery! Completely took over my bog once we re homed the family of groundhogs

 

[jmajid]

Just like addy1 - bought a hundred - put them in the pond... koi loved them.
Dont think i have any left now - started pulling shells out almost immediately.
The few we put in our inside tank, the fancy goldfish loved them too.
No more trapdoor snails.
I must admit though - they are fun to watch, especially the little babies.

 

[addy1]

My gold fish might eat some, but so far the population has stayed good. The fish do love to eat them if I happen to step on one. I shuffle my feet when in the pond trying not to break their shells.

 

[jjudjr]

I started my pond in 2019 with five 2-nch shubunkins. Two mostly white with some orange spots, 2 mostly orange with blue and black spots and one blue, black and orange speckled. I meant to get just three, but the pond shop offered me five for the same price. Now that I am more experienced, I realize they just wanted to get rid of the fish no one wanted. ANYWAY, the water was solid green the first year until my bog started working. Late that first year, the water cleared and we discovered a bunch of babies from several spawns during the summer. The next spring, I was cleaning out the upper pond that is solid plants, AND I found two black babies in that pond. I moved them to the big pond. Later on, I found two more black ones and even later I found one more...all solid black. I read somewhere that if the babies are not exposed to light they do not develop colors and stay dark. Maybe that is true as the upper pond is deep but truely solid plants top to bottom with a solid cap of red ludwigia with hornwort to the bottom.

So I now had five black shubunkins that were the result of eggs being sucked into the skimmer, through the pump and pipes and dumped into the upper pond. Maybe the eggs got damaged during this process and that is why they all were black.

My five, formerly solid black shubunkins of various sizes from 11/2 to 3 inches, have recently started changing colors. Not the normal shubunkin colors though. They are very dark, reddish- brown on top and golden yellow on the bottom. There coloration makes them all but invisible in the pond.

I now have 18 shubunkins in the pond. The five originals all about 8+ inches and a variety of sizes for the rest. Of them I have five almost all white ones and the rest black, blue and orange. Several of them have a more golden-orange and the others a red-orange. Of the five originals, there is one white and one mostly orange females. So the black ones likely came from these two.

You may be asking, why am I posting all this information. Well when I first started someone thought they had a bass in there pond. I now believe they just had one of these black babies that changed to the color I mentioned above. Second, I am considering removing all the formerly black fish as they are now large enough to spawn and I really do not want or need any more black ones. They are hard to see in the pond and probably will never develop the beautiful colors of the other fish.

In case the skimmer, pump trip is what caused the five to end up black, I have decided to turn the upper-pond into another bog and eliminate the possibiliy of any eggs developing there in the future and producing more black babies.

Lastly, my pond has provided great entertainment and enjoyment from the family and the neighborhood children. I am so glad we put it in. Now that the bog is working great, there isn't much in the way of maintenance and the water stays very clear. I am looking forward to repotting my water lillies and the other plants in the pond.

Fall last year below.


View attachment 137103

This year with two dark fish at the bottom and one in the middle top of the photo. The brown color can be seen on the middle top fish that is surfacing

I have a two year old pond with 2 shubunkins and two fantails. This year ended up with about 10 babies. Three of those are stealth black. I have a submerged filter/fountain. But I do have a lot of plants. 3/4 of the pond surface is completely covered in two types of floating plants. Though some babies are classic shubunkin colors but some are pure black still 2 months later. They are really hard to see.