Ceaning your pond????

[Meyer Jordan]

You are such a stickler

I have found it to be necessary when discussing anything that is based on science. Many of the present day myths associated with pond keeping originated in a failure of someone to be precise.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You mentioned earlier that you'll get anaerobic bacteria action going on in a pond if the mulm gets very thick. This is not the desirable type of biological activity (bacteria action) we want going on it our ponds to a large degree.

That may be debatable. Even though at a certain depth anaerobic bacteria exist and generate H2S. In the anoxic layer directly above this, heterotrophic bacteria are busy with denitrification...reducing Nitrate to Nitrogen gas. Also in this layer and the uppermost layer dwell myriad aquatic organisms- nematodes, various insect larvae, and other aquatic organisms providing food for bottom-feeders such as Koi.

 

[peter hillman]

I say the size of the pond has a lot to do with it. It's difficult to create a natural environment in a couple hundred gallons. Those of you that have multi thousand gallon ponds have an advantage over my 600g. This year I'm trying minimal maintenance, with parameter tests. When I run my waterfall I have to clean the filter pad every two weeks as it slows the flow.

 

[Smaug]

Well OP, tell us what size pond you have and what are it's occupants.
To the others spewing all the big words here I say this,it's not so much science unless you are a scientist . Backyard ponds are just that,tiny bodies of water that have very little to do with anything natural. I read Meyers stuff and it sounds all very scientific but in reality he is being vague as the majority of that drivel is only workable in a lab.
To the op again, this thread is useless without pictures and all the facts.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I read Meyers stuff and it sounds all very scientific but in reality he is being vague as the majority of that drivel is only workable in a lab.

In 20 years of constructing and maintaining ponds, and actively applying this 'drivel', there has not been one instance of a major or chronic problem with water quality or fish health.

It may also interest you to know that this 'drivel' is what enabled your supermarket to be stocked with seafood.

 

[william jones]

You really shoukd net out any debris from the bottom. Don't fool yiurself into thing yiur pond is a natural system that takes care of itself. Most garden ponds are anything but natural and being a closed loop it is very different to a natural pond that has a natural bottom with naturally occurring plants to absorb excess nutrients. Sure to yiur eye your fish are healthy but they could be a lot healthier if you kept there environment cleaner. No need for draining and scrubbing though,just net out anything that will come out.

OK, we talked about leaking ponds and that was useful but here is another topic I have many questions about. Is the urge to clean your fish pond driven by the same obsessive urge that causes many women (and some men) to give up about half their lives cleaning things, chasing after cobwebs and bits of dust especially around the house? In this case it's all about appearance and an need to comply to the same standards of friends and neighbours and nothing to do with hygiene. Well is cleaning ponds driven by the same thing? I never clean my pond because I have too much regard for for the wildlife surviving in it because of the "muck" on the bottom of the pond. So for them this nectar. I say that the "dirty" pond is much healthier and a much more attractive place to live than one with only a barren and boring pond liner which is desert from the fish point of view. In a natural habitat no one cleans river lakes rivers and ponds, thanks be. Surely all you need is a good pump and filtration system. I have never cleaned mine in 18 years!

 

[william jones]

Thanks for the comments and I understand the merit in what everyone is saying. My point really is that once you've let a pond evolve naturally it is easy to fall into the trap of seeing it just as a "fish pond" to the neglect of all the rest of the uninvited wildlife which will have taken residence in it whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about large dead animals which will have to be fished out immediately, of course. But when we talk about "cleaning it" how does your net tell the difference between that which is useful and/or harmful? Taking out "anything that will come out" is more risky than leaving it in there. Is'nt that the same as getting rid of things for no better reason that it strikes you as cosmetically undesirable. A bit like OC cleaning really. No matter what you do disasters sometimes happen but your filtration system is the only thing needing OCD. Worrying about scientific chemistry issues will spoil any enjoyment of your pond.

 

[addy1]

When I net mine, I dump it on some somewhat fine screening and sit and pick out all the critters, toss them back into the pond. Usually it is just snails when I scoop up the fall leaves. I have some bigger than gulf ball size trap door snails down to tiny babies. Takes a while, I am sure I miss a few, but save all I find. Same with water beetles, dragon fly larvae. Save the kids lol.

Then I put the rest of the stuff in a bucket with some pond water see if anything comes out of the leaves before I toss them. To me the critters deserve to be saved.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

All good stuff

Thanks for the comments and I understand the merit in what everyone is saying. My point really is that once you've let a pond evolve naturally it is easy to fall into the trap of seeing it just as a "fish pond" to the neglect of all the rest of the uninvited wildlife which will have taken residence in it whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about large dead animals which will have to be fished out immediately, of course. But when we talk about "cleaning it" how does your net tell the difference between that which is useful and/or harmful? Taking out "anything that will come out" is more risky than leaving it in there. Is'nt that the same as getting rid of things for no better reason that it strikes you as cosmetically undesirable. A bit like OC cleaning really. No matter what you do disasters sometimes happen but your filtration system is the only thing needing OCD. Worrying about scientific chemistry issues will spoil any enjoyment of your pond.

While I agree that Aquascape's protocol of draining and pressure washing the rocks and liner of a pond does more harm then good, I have also seen too many neglected ponds that were so full of mulm, debris and algae that they had turned into literal cesspools. Like Mitch says, there needs to be a balance.
I try to drain my vortex settling tank when ever I see starting to accumulate more then a few inches of debris. It gets drained into a 5 gal bucket and it often contains small crustaceans and water insects. I check the bucket when I dump it to see if there are any living or dead frogs or fish and I'll rescue them, but I don't try to rescue any of the other stuff because I know there'll be plenty more where they came from. I have another filter made of wrapped quilt batting that traps a lot more of the living critters, many of them are very tiny and no doubt many more are microscopic. I have been known to pick out the larger dragonfly nymphs and throw them back into the middle of the pond which very quickly become snacks for the fish, but I don't think I could really call that rescuing them.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

That may be debatable. Even though at a certain depth anaerobic bacteria exist and generate H2S. In the anoxic layer directly above this, heterotrophic bacteria are busy with denitrification...reducing Nitrate to Nitrogen gas. Also in this layer and the uppermost layer dwell myriad aquatic organisms- nematodes, various insect larvae, and other aquatic organisms providing food for bottom-feeders such as Koi.

I'm sure most backyard ponds have anaerobic and anoxic areas in them regardless of whether the pond owner actively encouraging these areas or not. Take care to encourage the aerobic bacteria and the anaerobic and anoxic bacteria will take care of themselves.
Meyers you certainly aren't debating that we want to encourage aerobic (nitrifying) bacteria colonies in our ponds are you???

 

[sissy]

I am just plain lazy when it comes to cleaning my pond .A pool net and that is it .

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Meyers you certainly aren't debating that we want to encourage aerobic (nitrifying) bacteria colonies in our ponds are you???

Of course the growth of Nitrifying bacteria is wanted. Actually, I know of no way to hinder its growth without endangering everything else living in a pond.

 

[william jones]

It seems to me that the natural world works best without human intervention because there are plenty of examples of the disastrous effect of it everywhere. The world was a healthier place for all life forms before humans existed. The "science" existing before that produced a much better environment for all forms of life even if it did appear to be tougher. All this should tell us that the less human intervention the better. If the pond fails then that event is no more or less natural than similar events throughout the entire history of the planet. For instance, if cleaning your pond, no matter how well intended, leads to healthier one then it will only be luck. What it will also do is deprive the pond wildlife of the vital immunity stimuli which wouldn't be available without the detritus (mulm). All this tells me to leave it alone and hope for the best. Nature will sort it out much better than humans. But be sure to attend to filtration and that's about it.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

It seems to me that the natural world works best without human intervention because there are plenty of examples of the disastrous effect of it everywhere. The world was a healthier place for all life forms before humans existed. The "science" existing before that produced a much better environment for all forms of life even if it did appear to be tougher. All this should tell us that the less human intervention the better. If the pond fails then that event is no more or less natural than similar events throughout the entire history of the planet. For instance, if cleaning your pond, no matter how well intended, leads to healthier one then it will only be luck. What it will also do is deprive the pond wildlife of the vital immunity stimuli which wouldn't be available without the detritus (mulm). All this tells me to leave it alone and hope for the best. Nature will sort it out much better than humans. But be sure to attend to filtration and that's about it.

Problem is, not all "filtration" is created equal, and I don't know if you know this or not, but there are many "natural" bodies of water that can't support fish life, assuming we can agree that supporting fish life is at least the bare minimum prerequisite for labeling a pond "healthy". If the only life we need to support in a pond is bacteria to call it healthy, then just about any body of water can be labeled natural and healthy, including my septic tank.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What it will also do is deprive the pond wildlife of the vital immunity stimuli

This is a subject that very few think of, but should. Ignoring this well established natural process is what leads to many, if not most, of the health issues that Pondkeepers experience with their fish..