CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[combatwombat]

@GBBUDD: I only have access to two sides of the pond with a machine. Where I'm standing w/ the camera is totally cut off. You could get a tiny machine in there if you removed some plants, but otherwise, no access. The ramp idea is interesting just to get me further into the pond for better access. Problem is that edge of pond is pretty close to existing sewer line, so probably won't work.

 

[Lisak1]

This may have already been discussed so forgive me if I'm repeating what you already know, but you need to overdig your cistern. Your installation should be underlay->liner->underlay, with a good 8-12 inches of space around the outside. You wrap the underlay, liner, underlay layers over the top of the crates and then backfill with sand between the outermost layer of underlay and the outer wall. REALLY pack that down as you go - that way you will ensure that those crates aren't going anywhere when you start piling heavy rock on top. Those layers of underlayment and liner take up more space than you think, so give yourself some room to work.

Speaking from experience here as we dug ours to fit the blocks exactly. Got the underlay and liner in and lost the space of 4 or 5 blocks. Had to pull it all out and re-dig. Our rain exchange is 32 large aquablox - losing space for 4 of them would not have been a good move.

When I say "we" I mean my three boys, working on a 104 degree day in July. Good thing they love their mama!

 

[GBBUDD]

My friend your only thinking like harry home owner with a shovel. you are receiving the ability to move earth very quickly and easily. in the picture i have attached the areas in red you peal back your liner to the other side of the pond if need be . easy done right? take the excavator and dig out the top of the pond shown in red down to the shelf shown in yellow. if need be take that soil and place it in the pond at the bottom just to make it easier to get the machine across. but like i said before you may need to stage the rock in the bottom of the pond from where you can access by your deck. BUT i just noticed you may not have access to that shed from the other side of the house either do you? YOU HAVE A MACHINE is it worth while to remove the stairs ? your talking a couple rails and stair stringer hangers pretty easy to remove alot less work to move those then to start building bridges . if you had aquablocks i'd say finish the cistern with at least a foot of soil over them and you could drive over the cistern but with milk crates it's hard to say if it will carry the load. I ALSO just noticed it looks like your blocks will be close to grade what's your plan there?

 

[combatwombat]

you need to overdig your cistern. Your installation should be underlay->liner->underlay, with a good 8-12 inches of space around the outside.

Yep. I have about 6" of play around the whole perimeter. Hoping that is enough, but we shall see once I lay it all in and test fit again.

And a question for anyone: I want to put a plywood-like sheet good over top of the crates to spread the load once installed. @GBBUDD recommended AZEK PVC sheeting. That would work really well, but I can't find it anywhere. HD/Lowes doesn't stock it and can't seem to order it in, either. I found one local lumber yard that can order it, but it's about $200/sheet right now and would take about 6 weeks to get it. Wild.

 

[combatwombat]

@GBBUDD: Interested to see what you're thinking, but don't see the attachment.

 

[GBBUDD]

Yep. I have about 6" of play around the whole perimeter. Hoping that is enough, but we shall see once I lay it all in and test fit again.

And a question for anyone: I want to put a plywood-like sheet good over top of the crates to spread the load once installed. @GBBUDD recommended AZEK PVC sheeting. That would work really well, but I can't find it anywhere. HD/Lowes doesn't stock it and can't seem to order it in, either. I found one local lumber yard that can order it, but it's about $200/sheet right now and would take about 6 weeks to get it. Wild.

Home depot stocks it here in the east coast they can get it for you. plywood even marine grade will rot. Aquascapes made a thin aquablock PANEL that looks like it is actually two put together and should do as your looking for it will have it's seams differently then is your milk crates. now that i think about it why not just take aquablocks and not put them together and just lay each panel on top of the milk crates cover the whole thing with a layer or maybe even two i would also zip tie everything together .

on the 6 inch space are you going to add fabric against the milk crates then your liner and another layer of fabric and then sand? thats right you have a soil with next to no rocks so i guess your using native to backfill

 

[GBBUDD]

here you go PULL THE BAMBOO IF NEEDED VERY HARD TO KILL THAT IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE

 

[GBBUDD]

Good thing they love their mama!

i bet they had just moved OUT on there own and would have done ANYTHING for moms cooking over another Burger king OR TV DINNER

 

[Lisak1]

i bet they had just moved OUT on there own and would have done ANYTHING for moms cooking over another Burger king OR TV DINNER

They do enjoy a good home cooked meal... although they are all good cooks in their own right, it always tastes better when Mom does the cooking!

 

[combatwombat]

Home depot stocks it here in the east coast they can get it for you.

I'll go back and talk to someone in CS who knows how to order stuff. Might have just talked to the wrong person.

Aquascapes made a thin aquablock PANEL that looks like it is actually two put together and should do as your looking for it will have it's seams differently then is your milk crates.

I'll check on this, but have a feeling it will be even more expensive than the azek sheets.

on the 6 inch space are you going to add fabric against the milk crates then your liner and another layer of fabric and then sand? thats right you have a soil with next to no rocks so i guess your using native to backfill

Yep, that's the idea. Most of my soil is very clean stuff. Plan to backfill w/ native.

here you go PULL THE BAMBOO IF NEEDED VERY HARD TO KILL THAT IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE

Thanks. I see what you're talking about now. I do have access to the far side of the pond. Just have to pull a fence post to get the machine in.

I went out and measured from the edge of my cistern to the fence and I'm just shy of 6', which is enough room to maneuver this 6k machine if I pull a couple of bamboo out. That might still put me a little closer to the edge of the cistern than I'm comfortable with and would be a long, slow trip w/ a boulder strapped in, but that would give me access to basically all areas of the pond. I also have a very agreeable neighbor who might not mind if peel my fence back and drive on his side to maneuver. Maybe I can offer him some work in return. I think he was planning to rip up that section of his landscaping.

Barring all that, I can also just rent a big construction fork lift for a day and crane stuff in if I have to.

If I knew what I really wanted from the beginning, I would have approached this project very differently! Have made it quite difficult on myself. Couldn't have gotten here without all the mistakes and plan changes, though. So oh well!

 

[combatwombat]

@GBBUDD: You also mentioned something about depth of crates below grade. Currently, top of crates will be 4" below lowest point of grade. That will leave me space for the plywood + about 3" of gravel for a gravel patio and 4-6" falls from the pond into the cistern. And all of that w/ the liner from the pond.

I can see the value of going deeper (more landscaping options, bigger falls) but got tired of digging with the shovel and getting close to the end of the liner. Will re-evaluate when the machine gets here.

 

[GBBUDD]

They do enjoy a good home cooked meal... although they are all good cooks in their own right, it always tastes better when Mom does the cooking!

AMEN

 

[GBBUDD]

@GBBUDD: You also mentioned something about depth of crates below grade. Currently, top of crates will be 4" below lowest point of grade. That will leave me space for the plywood + about 3" of gravel for a gravel patio and 4-6" falls from the pond into the cistern. And all of that w/ the liner from the pond.

I can see the value of going deeper (more landscaping options, bigger falls) but got tired of digging with the shovel and getting close to the end of the liner. Will re-evaluate when the machine gets her

I can't say for sure but is that what your research said to use 3" above milk crates i myself would definitely look for additional support like the aquablock panels or azek

 

[bagsmom]

Regarding bamboo - I know there are different kinds but the stuff we have here is terrible. It can only be eradicated by digging it up, which isn't easy. If you have an opportunity to get rid of it while you have some large equipment, you might consider doing it!
I can't wait to see your completed pond! Very exciting!

 

[GBBUDD]

I'll go back and talk to someone in CS who knows how to order stuff. Might have just talked to the wrong person.

They may have a different name for it i find it in the isle with paneling they have had 1/4" 1/2" and 3/4"