CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[combatwombat]

Cut a hole in 18” pipe so the 12” pipe will fit into At the end and notch out the 12” pipe so the sediment can get to the bottom of the snorkel.
In this application the stuff doesn’t have to fit tightly, as long as the bottom of the snorkel is the lowest point and the bottom is pitched to it.

Ok, that makes sense!

 

[GBBUDD]

Got another quote from underwater warehouse for about 40 large easy pro blocks. Price has gone up about $8 from what we got it for in the spring.

An aside, We were thinking about getting a barge built, price jump from the quote we got last year to this year was like 40k. The tariff on Chinese steel, has brought it close enough to the cost of American steel that everyone is just using American steel causing a big demand hike. At least that is what supplier is telling me..... price hike on a lot of stuff now is getting ridiculous.....

Unfortunately a lot has to do with the current bs . The project im trying to get off the ground is hitting the same road blocks.

If I remember correctly though didn't we get them else where. Maybe I m wrong I have bought and done so much the last 3 years. Hard to believe its been that long already.

 

[combatwombat]

Liner is here! Came 4 days early. It's Christmas in October!

 

[GBBUDD]

Liner is here! Came 4 days early. It's Christmas in October!

Don't rush it you only get one shot to do it right the first time . but your definitely off to a good start

 

[combatwombat]

Fish cave excavations are in. The scraps I picked up were actually 15" culverts, so I ended up with a 3'x15" and a 2'x15" fish cave, cut into the bottom shelf just above the floor and pitched forward just a bit to allow water to drain out if I ever have to drain the pond (knock on wood).

 

[Jhn]

Unfortunately a lot has to do with the current bs . The project im trying to get off the ground is hitting the same road blocks.

If I remember correctly though didn't we get them else where. Maybe I m wrong I have bought and done so much the last 3 years. Hard to believe its been that long already.

Thought we got it from underwater warehouse, but could be wrong.

Fish cave excavations are in. The scraps I picked up were actually 15" culverts, so I ended up with a 3'x15" and a 2'x15" fish cave, cut into the bottom shelf just above the floor and pitched forward just a bit to allow water to drain out if I ever have to drain the pond (knock on wood

Nice pick ups, I had some culvert pipe left over from a job, and just tossed them in the deep end of the pond under the waterfall and A large stump root system I placed in the pond. Unless the water is turned off you can’t tell they are in the pond, once everything gets the coating of algae on it, it is hard to see even without it being hidden by rocks.

 

[GBBUDD]

@Jhn HOW MANY GPH are you pushing in your pond and how many gallons is it ?

 

[GBBUDD]

Your soil looks absolutely perfect for building a pond little to no rock but the sides both sculp well and don't seem to want to collapse.. The only note I can make is the edging that addy drew. There are many ways to do edging but that is by far the easiest and most effective. And don't forget that idea about having some water out past theedging rocks its a very cool detail. I put pitcher plants in one area along with some horse tail rush and its always a favorite for anyone who comes over.

 

[Jhn]

@Jhn HOW MANY GPH are you pushing in your pond and how many gallons is it ?

The pond itself is around 10,000 gallons, have a 10k pump to the waterfall that is probably pushing 8-9,000 gallons, and a 3000 gallon pump to the 12’x12’x3’ deep bog....so probably around 10-11,000 gallons give or take pushing through it. Also have an aerator in the mid level of the pond.

 

[combatwombat]

I was about to start doing some final cleanup of the hole and putting in my underlayment when I decided to confuse myself with the question, "Do I need some bottom drains?" I'd previously decided the pond didn't need it, but now I'm revisiting the question before it's too late.

Bottom of pond is about 4' deep. There will be something covering the liner down there. Either gravel or some flagstone. The pond is primarily a water garden, but will be splashed around in a bit by humans during the heat of summer.

I think 90%+ of water gardeners do not install bottom drains, and everything works out fine. But I'm happy to go a little further in complexity now to avoid ongoing maintenance in the future.

I think I read somewhere in the forums that a BD system is pointless unless you also build a settling chamber system for it. I won't be building a separate settling chamber, but the pump will be sending most or all the water to an aquascape style upflow bog. I suppose that would serve a similar purpose, but could also cause clogging problems in the bog if I'm shooting crud off of the bottom of the pond into the bottom of a bog. That seems like... not a good idea.

@GBBUDD: I know you installed a BD system in your pond. What drove that decision? And are you pumping what it pulls directly into your upflow bog?

@addy1: I think I read that you had a BD on one of your old ponds, but decided not to have them on your current ones. Is that correct?

If I don't do bottom drains, I could also place some jets near the bottom to stir things up. Maybe that would be another solution.

 

[GBBUDD]

My pond is 6 foot deep and I created a swirl to the current of the pond two return jets and the water fall circulate the water counter clock wise. The two main drains are in the center of this counter clock wise spin and the skimmer is along side the waterfall after the water has made a complete rotation. One of my videos in my build is a go pro on a floating handle as it drifts in the current. So in short the surface spins toward the skimmer and the drains in the center make a whirl pool in the center pulling debris in. If was the design I really had no idea if it would work with debris and sediment but I am happy with it . And seeing a whirl pool develope is pretty cool. The one thing I was told and confirmed is you need two drains in deeper ponds they have to be on the same pipe so if someone was to get to the drain and clog it the pressure would shift to the second drain. One law that actually makes sense. But after it is pulled from the drain it just goes to the basket strainer in the external pump and from there straight to the bogs

 

[combatwombat]

My pond is 6 foot deep and I created a swirl to the current of the pond two return jets and the water fall circulate the water counter clock wise. The two main drains are in the center of this counter clock wise spin and the skimmer is along side the waterfall after the water has made a complete rotation. One of my videos in my build is a go pro on a floating handle as it drifts in the current. So in short the surface spins toward the skimmer and the drains in the center make a whirl pool in the center pulling debris in. If was the design I really had no idea if it would work with debris and sediment but I am happy with it . And seeing a whirl pool develope is pretty cool. The one thing I was told and confirmed is you need two drains in deeper ponds they have to be on the same pipe so if someone was to get to the drain and clog it the pressure would shift to the second drain. One law that actually makes sense. But after it is pulled from the drain it just goes to the basket strainer in the external pump and from there straight to the bogs

Thanks for that explanation. Do you have gravel on the bottom of your pond? I don’t remember.

 

[GBBUDD]

Thanks for that explanation. Do you have gravel on the bottom of your pond? I don’t remember.

Yup I do and I have foxtail growing. The other thought I have is with vacuuming 2 inch rocks in the bottom will get stuck in the end of the vac while 3/4 and 1 inch will get clogged in the pipe. And can be a real pain

 

[addy1]

@addy1: I think I read that you had a BD on one of your old ponds, but decided not to have them on your current ones. Is that correct?

Yes you are right. I did not care for it. This is years ago, it sucked in fry, snails, plants etc. Maybe they are better built now. This pond does not have one and I have no regrets 11 years later.

The bottom of my pond has some pea gravel, some kitty litter (spilled over the years) a small amount of muck. I used to net the bottom but after never getting more than 1/2 of a 5 gallon bucket of stuff to toss (early years) to almost nothing to toss later I even quit doing that. Takes a lot of time to pull out the trap door snails, the critters that live in the pond.

Deepest depth is 5.5 or so feet.

 

[combatwombat]

Thanks @GBBUDD & @addy1. I'll probably omit the bottom drain. At least for now. What I might do is dig out the bottom and sidewalls of the pond to accept bottom drain plumbing in the future, and then just install the liner. I found someone on YT talking about forming your liner to your BD excavation and simply running your plumbing over the liner, inside your trench instead of cutting the liner and installing underneath.

That seems like such an obvious solution, I can't think of why it is not the default. Maybe just because BDs are more common in DKPs and DKPs don't tend to use any rock to hide the plumbing so they want it under the liner? You could also just paint the pvc black and it would disappear as well.

Even if I decided to install them, I really don't know how I would plumb them into an intake bay (I will not have a traditional skimmer).

Anyway, I think what I'll plan to do is use a flagstone in the bottom of the pond and try to keep it clear with a couple of jets down there.

Does anyone have a recommendation for circulation jets? I've been reading about eductor jets that can move 5x the gpm of the pump that is powering them. Sounds like voodoo magic. Don't totally understand how they work. Have also been looking into Aquascape's pond power heads, which are low voltage, self-contained pumps that don't require any plumbing.

And all this is making me realize I need to make a decision about where electricity lives. If I want to be as safe as possible, I need to plan to use an external pump and also decide if I will allow low voltage cables/devices inside the pond. I'd always planned on a submersible pump protected by a GFCI circuit.

Every question just produces more questions. What a great hobby this is!