Fantail deaths :(

[fantail76]

Hi all, i was wondering if anyone could help work out why my 2 favourite fish in my pond have just died within 24hrs of each other.

I have a nice large 1000 gallon pond just recently done with 20 odd fish in there which include a few koi but mostly goldfish and did include my recently purchased in the last 2 months fantail gold fish.

Over the weekend though 1 died on saturday then the other one died on the sunday, i took a sample of the water to the pond shop i bought them from and they said it was fine, none of the other fish have died or show any ill symptoms so it is a real mystery why they have died and none of the others

I googled this and someone actually said they could die after giving birth but i just dont believe this

thanks

 

[sissy]

Do you have a filter and do you have a water test kit as all your levels me be up and that is why fish are dieing

 

[Jason]

I would study them, See if they had any sores or growths on them or any "physical" deformations. My largest Goldfish had a 1-2" long Sore on it, turns out it was a fungal infection and I had to treat it in a 10 gallon tank for a month before it fully healed.
https://mail-attachment.googleuserc...375288527223&sads=p5fvw7NSrA1kz7X4ssNp4I6hlbA

 

[fantail76]

I have a filter, it's a filter suitable for a pond 5x as big as well

I examined both fish and both were in perfect condition with not a mark on them

 

[fantail76]

Also the pond shop tested the water and said it was perfect

 

[Mmathis]

Hi! It's frustrating when you're getting a lot of different advice. But to help us help you, there is more information we need, and hopefully that will help figure out what's going on.

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You said your pond is new. How long has it been up & running?

Pond size is 1000 gal. And you have good filtration. But what kind do you have going, etc? Are there any waterfalls?

Do you have any plants?

How deep is the pond?

What does your water look like?

You have about 20 fish, mixed goldfish & koi. Approx. how big are your fish?

How often do you feed them?

How has your weather (temps) been lately, and does your pond have some shade? Do you know the temperature of the water?

Your 2 fish that died were recently added, and you said there was nothing obviously wrong with them. Did you notice any unusual behavior prior to their deaths? Were they acting "funny" or odd at all, or were they spending a lot of time at the top of the water?
Did you quarantine them before they were added to the pond?

You took a sample of your water to be tested, and were told the water was OK. Do you know what they tested for and the number values of the tests? Just hearing that the results were "fine" or "OK" isn't helpful, as we really need to know the numbers. We recommend for folks to get their own test kit so you can do this yourself and keep track of your results. Test for pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, KH, and a few others -- but those are the main ones.

Sorry to answer your question with more questions, but please understand that it's going to be impossible to say what happened to your fish without knowing a little more about your pond!

 

[DOUBBLE TAP]

Sorry to hear that, it always sucks when one dies. You said the store said the water was perfect, but perfect is relative. Did they give you numbers? My first suggestion would be to get a drop test kit of your own and use it often, twice a day maybe 3 times if there seems to be a problem in the pond and at lease every 2 weeks if there is not. There can be pretty drastic ph swings from the morning to the evening so if you pulled water out to be tested say mid day you are not getting an accurate read on it. I test in the morning and at night then find my average. Not saying that this is the case but something to consider. I have heard stories about fan tails and ornamental goldfish being starved out by koi as the koi are voracious eaters and much faster swimmers so they get to the food first and eat it all. The only other thing I can think of is your stocking density seems pretty high depending on size of the fish 20 fish in 1k gal and some of them are koi to boot .A few koi need much more space than that by them selves. Koi and comets being hardier than some of the more ornamental goldies would be able to handle the harsher conditions of an over stocked pond if not better than at least longer than ornamental goldies.

 

[Litzi1964]

The size of the fish has a lot to do with it being overstocked or not, and how many are goldfish and how many are koi. 1000 gallons divided by 20 is 50 gallons per fish, which should support a goldfish up to 5 inches long or a koi up to 2.5 inches long. Put another way, 1000 gallons should support 100 inches of goldfish or 50 inches of koi, or some combination thereof. This is assuming adequate filtration and aeration for 1000 gallons and good water parameters.

 

[Dave 54]

Sorry to hear of your loss seeing as others have asked the main questions I'll ask ones that have been missed
Did you QT them for a month prior to them going in the pond , do you do regular water changers and filter maintenance ?

rgrds

Dave

 

[sissy]

It looks like your pond is cement and by pond store saying perfect did they give you a read out or just say perfect .Better to get your own test .Maybe pics would help it has to be water quality is off some where if they were healthy fish .Were the eating and what were they eating .

 

[CometKeith]

My two cents is when fish die in the summer and look perfect otherwise it is because of low levels of dissolved oxygen. 2 indicators of this would be finding the fish dead in the morning when O2 is at it's lowest or one of the larger fish in the pond dies because the bigger fish need more O2.

 

[fantail76]

thanks for all the help so far in regards to the questions from turtlemommy:

You said your pond is new. How long has it been up & running? always had a pond there but after a heron took some of our fish we completly rebuilt it making it much deeper and more secure

Pond size is 1000 gal. And you have good filtration. But what kind do you have going, etc? its a oase filtoclear 6000, the pond shop said it was for a pond 5x as big as mine and would only need changing once a year....its only been a couple of months since its been running we have the Are there any waterfalls? no

Do you have any plants? yes plenty....oxygenerators, lillys, the bunches of ones that lie on the top which they feed on, in fact that multiplied so much we had to take some out,

How deep is the pond? 1 meter in the middle and it goes up in steps to the end

What does your water look like? quite dark but can still see down to the bottom

You have about 20 fish, mixed goldfish & koi. Approx. how big are your fish? the fantails were the biggest, next biggest is 1 koi which is 6-8inches there are 4 or 5 gold fish about 5 inches long the rest are all quite small

How often do you feed them? always once a day try and give them more in the evening when i get in

How has your weather (temps) been lately, and does your pond have some shade? Do you know the temperature of the water? pond has shade as the lillys provide it and so does some trees, dont know the temp, but it was at the weekend they died and it was not that hot as it has been

Your 2 fish that died were recently added, and you said there was nothing obviously wrong with them. Did you notice any unusual behavior prior to their deaths? no Were they acting "funny" or odd at all, or were they spending a lot of time at the top of the water? no more than normal
Did you quarantine them before they were added to the pond? no they were the first ones in as i just purchased them seperatley with the others we had left as we took them all out when we re-did the pond

I really hope its not something i have done that has caused them to die as i will be deverstated

i will buy the pond tester kits now and test the pond more regularly
It was Ammonia and something else they tested the pond for which they said was fine
I only have 1 average size koi so i cant believe they didnt have enough food or O2

I will try and take some pictures of the pond and upload them

thanks for all your advice

 

[sissy]

That is a lot of fish and you may want to cut back on feeding them but since you say you rebuilt and went deeper if you did not use any water from the old pond you are starting new .I Don't know much about those filters ,I built my own and think it is easier and much cheaper and work better .The plants give off oxygen during the day but at night they use it up and feeding your fish in the evening means they will produce more waste at night .That could be part of the problem but not sure .I only feed my fish 3 or 4 times a week .You may need to get a liquid test kit and test your water at different times of the morning .Do you have city or well water and is it treated and how much rain have you gotten what are the temps of the water and is it in sun or shade .Water that is hotter will use up more oxygen during the day and then at night the plants will use up even more .Also did the fish die or be found dead in the morning .Koi produce a lot of waste

 

[Mmathis]

I'm not an expert, but at least the folks here have taught me the right questions to ask

There is a fine balance when it comes to keeping fish in the enclosed environment of a pond. Sometimes it just doesn't take much for that balance to shift. Things happen that we might not even be aware are going on -- but these things can greatly stress the fish population. When a fish gets stressed, it is susceptible to disease and or effects of poor or borderline water. And because the bigger fish have bigger "needs," they are often the first casualties.

So it could have been that you had just 2 too many fish for what your pond could handle at the time. You may be at your fish-load limit! IOW, you may have too many fish. Lots of people over-stock, and they can get away with it as long as they maintain excellent filtration and have lots of water movement for oxygen.

Adding some aeration will help (a waterfall or having the return from your filter fall from more height, adding an air pump with an air stone, adding another, smaller pump to move the water around....).

Also, at night plants switch from producing oxygen, to using oxygen, which can be fatal to the fish if they're already stressed. So again, aeration is vital, especially at night. Some people will turn OFF their pumps at night -- never do that!

I would cut back on the food and maybe only feed a couple of times a week. If there's algae on the sides of the pond, the fish won't starve.

Hope that helps!

 

[fantail76]

Just to add to some other questions raised.

I put the 2 fantails in with the other fish when the pond was rebuilt with fresh water.

I'm starting to think maybe the plants that grew soo much took the oxygen away, we had to take out a lot of the plants as they grew so much they almost covered the whole top of the pond. I was assuming this was because was very healthy but maybe now I'm thinking they took all the oxygen away.

I will not get any more fish for now, I have even noticed some very small grey fish about a dozen in amongst the plants at the top, maybe these are baby goldfish.