Ideas for waterfall rebuild please

[GBBUDD]

Wasted a can or so , use only a tube maybe two FAMOUS LAST WORDS.

I THINK I USED 20 FOAM AND at least the same in caulking

 

[GBBUDD]

Whicking I honestly can tell you how it happens other than a guess. . and that's where if you were to take a straw and force the air downward by pressure when you stepped up you inadvertantly created a syphon. Same principle would be my guess

 

[Pond skipper]

Wasted a can or so , use only a tube maybe two FAMOUS LAST WORDS.

I THINK I USED 20 FOAM AND at least the same in caulking

Lol well thank you at least I don’t feel so bad… although I guess it deforms on the size of your waterfall lol

 

[GBBUDD]

I also used the foam to lock one man boulders in place that are the side walls in what is deadpool or the large intake bay. I was advised it wouldn't work but I had a feeling if the foam filled and replicated the shape of the boulders that's all I'd need to. Keep them locked in place 4 years latter happy to say not one has loosened up.

 

[GBBUDD]

Here's one piece of advice - your waterfall should be solid and secure WITHOUT foam. Foam serves one purpose - filling gaps between and behind rocks to keep water flowing over and not between and behind. If you have to use foam - or anything for that matter - to hold waterfall rocks in place you're not going to be happy with the results. You should be able to run your waterfall without foaming anything and not actually lose any water - whatever goes behind or under the rocks should still end up back in the pond. Visually you will "lose" it, in that you won't see it flowing as much, but it's still gotta flow into the pond, if that makes sense.

In short - foam won't stop leaks.

While you know i respect you @Lisak1 I have to lean a little outside the usual advice on foam.
While i agree fully foam is not a mortar and does not lock rocks preminently in place. After working with the foam I found several techniques that worked beyond my expectations.

One was taking the foam and placing a bead under the rocks as I placed them. This helped to hold the rocks in place while setting the next layers as you work from the bottom up.

The biggest pain was the fabric as it too will allow water to flow through it. And often a bead of caulking and a small putty knife solved the problem.

Also just as the foam is ALMOST DRY to throw peastone sand dirt twigs what ever that really makes the foam look like compacted soil.

And as I just mentioned. In dead pool my walls are leaning back just a little. I then started placing flat rocks standing up leaning into the wall and then stacked the next layer standing on the row below. Once I got a good size section done and I was happy with how it looked I sprayed foam between all the rocks filling every milk and cranny. After 4 years of me climbing in and out I'm happy to say while it's not the bond to the rocks that's keeping everything in place it's more the shape completely around the rock that holds very well.

It's kinda like getting the new TV. Placed in syrofoan there's only one way to get it out . Granted the stro is weak by its self but when it's backed up it really does the job.

 

[GBBUDD]

The long and short to what @bagsmom is referring to is to fold the excess liner INTO THE POND NOT OUT. This helps to minimize the strength of the draw/ whicking. But as a Gb rule of thumb ANY FOLD that is within 2 inches or less from the waters surface needs to be caulked. To prevent any chance of whicking.

 

[snoozer]

What do you all think of the idea of using a line of silicone sealant /caulking under each stone slab/rock so like put a thick bead of it on the first slab/rock and then set the next one on top of it, then maybe some waterfall foam around the outside edge to direct the water. The idea is that since the foam isn’t water tight whatever water gets through it will be stopped by the silicone so I stop losing water that way. Any thoughts or comments?

You mention that you hope the silicone will stop you from losing water, I don't think that will happen. Just want to ask, does your liner from the pond go up and behind the waterfall?

 

[Pond skipper]

The long and short to what @bagsmom is referring to is to fold the excess liner INTO THE POND NOT OUT. This helps to minimize the strength of the draw/ whicking. But as a Gb rule of thumb ANY FOLD that is within 2 inches or less from the waters surface needs to be caulked. To prevent any chance of whicking.

Do you mean the EPDM liner is porous enough to wick water out of the pond?

 

[Pond skipper]

You mention that you hope the silicone will stop you from losing water, I don't think that will happen. Just want to ask, does your liner from the pond go up and behind the waterfall?

Yes it does, the weirdest thing is, I took all the gravel out of the bog garden yesterday and pumped all the water that was in it out to check the liner and this morning it was half full of water again. It didn’t rain. I have no idea where the water came from

 

[Pond skipper]

Has anyone tried using hydraulic cement to seal the rocks so water flows where you and it to go?

 

[snoozer]

Yes it does, the weirdest thing is, I took all the gravel out of the bog garden yesterday and pumped all the water that was in it out to check the liner and this morning it was half full of water again. It didn’t rain. I have no idea where the water came from

did you have the pumps running?

 

[Pond skipper]

did you have the pumps running?

Yes the pumps are running but the hoses are just discharging into the main pond right now one after going through the garbage can filter the other just circulating/aerating

 

[GBBUDD]

Do you mean the EPDM liner is porous enough to wick water out of the pond?

not pourus at all , slick if anythin. But trust me it can do as i described. and to go back looking for leaks latter that are now tucked behind 100 or 500 pound rocks is not my idea of fun. Spending a half hour or even an hour now sealing the folds can save you from stress and hair loss.

 

[GBBUDD]

Yes it does, the weirdest thing is, I took all the gravel out of the bog garden yesterday and pumped all the water that was in it out to check the liner and this morning it was half full of water again. It didn’t rain. I have no idea where the water came from

ANY CHANCE YOU GOT A BACK SYPHON? ORRRRRRRRR DID A SEAM / FOLD WHICK ON YOU !!!!!!!!!

 

[GBBUDD]

Has anyone tried using hydraulic cement to seal the rocks so water flows where you and it to go?

THE problem with using cement is if it tapers to a thin area it can crack and break off giving you sharp bits of concrete in the pond. not a great end result if you were to use it where there's no taper and it's is a solid 2" or 1" thick bead under a rock and the liner is TIght to the ground and will not move as any surface that's not solid is a disaster for concrete. or hydraulic. imo I found the foam and caulking to work the best . a bit messy but. For that matter if your just trying to make the foam a little better at stopping more water you could always use flex seal and paint it on. but my experience with flex seal is it peals easily it's not the strongest stuff