IS Ponding a dying hobby?

crsublette

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Since I value my personal time higher than minimum wage, my biggest expense was my personal time and back breaking shoveling to build the darn thing and mine is actually quite small!!! :)

In all seriousness though, if folk are smart about obtaining recycled materials, get as much stuff free or significantly discounts, then it can be quite cheap to build a pond and landscape it. However, this involves folk spending personal time actually doing quite a bit of homework to make it so cheap.
 

sissy

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I knew my budget was 500 at the most but craigslist and local paper the piedmont shopper were great places to shop cheap and fter it all I spent less than 300 hundred but also sold fish from ponds i tore apart .I say 300 and that was for 2 big liners and 2 small liners and i think my pump was the 2 most expensive things I bought .I did have to buy some concrete block from lowes but got damaged ones the manager showed me and they were 59 cents a piece for the new filter .I also had to buy some of my retaining wall block from lowes as the ones i got off craigslist were not enough .You do have to have time to look .But the internet makes it so simple .With out it not sure .I originally wanted a long pondless one down my slopped front yard but rocks are not cheap .My rocks were all free from creek across the road and from the other house and a creek in NC .For the rocks on my hill 4 truckloads 17 to 19 ton a piece they were 400 a truckload ,they dump we move them .
 

HARO

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MitchM said:
Wayne, it could also be the perspective of your retailer.
A lot of retailers are having to re-think the way they do business because of how convenient online shopping is these days. A cheaper price for almost anything is out there.
We also live in a largely commodity driven province and the world economy isn't looking so hot these days. A lot of people might be thinking the party's over.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Mitch! I run a small pond area at a local garden center, and much of my time is spent giving free advice to people who bought their rquipment on-line or at discount stores. Unfortunately, these places provide no follow-up on their cheap sales, but they ARE putting others out of bussiness. I've been told to scale back all stock, keeping only small pumps and such for ponds in the under-500g range. Having built up that part of the busuness over the last seven years, I find it rather disappointing, but I guess that's bussiness! I doubt I'll be there next year, though. :grumble:
John
 

waynefrcan

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Dave's pond Indiana said:
I increased my pond volume from 7200 to 19000 and my wife said I broke the bank. That was before I added the 25' bridge.
Nice, any pics?
 

waynefrcan

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True I bought pond pumps off ebay and with shipping and Customs fees I still saved about $250.

But koi can't be sent through the mail and whats a pond without koi? A big koi dealer and pond supply store closed last year. This guy had the nice japanese koi, hundreds of them. Must have seen the doom on the horizon and just shut it all down.

THe pond supply business that I started this topic with used to build ponds, but stopped a few years back, too much headache. Now just sells the equipment for it.
 

HTH

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waynefrcan said:
True I bought pond pumps off ebay and with shipping and Customs fees I still saved about $250.

But koi can't be sent through the mail
We send goldfish through the mail I expect you can with small koi too.

waynefrcan said:
and whats a pond without koi?
Wow! Go sit in the corner for an hour. :) Koi have the big thing going for them and are beautiful fish. But these is maybe 100 times more variety with fancy goldfish and you can keep more fish.

waynefrcan said:
A big koi dealer and pond supply store closed last year. This guy had the nice japanese koi, hundreds of them. Must have seen the doom on the horizon and just shut it all down.

THe pond supply business that I started this topic with used to build ponds, but stopped a few years back, too much headache. Now just sells the equipment for it.
I expect they got tired of dealing with people that have ponds built then expect them to be care free. Sort of like the people who think having a dog would be neat, get one, then tie it up in the back yard and ignore it which causes it to bark all the time. Then they dump it because it barks too much.
 

waynefrcan

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Did I forget to say we can't import koi through the mail? Average Joe blow backyard hobbiest will just use local pet stores etc.

Very few fancy goldfish do well in a pond and they don't get to 18-24 inches either. A pond without koi is like a farm with no cattle. lol I'll take heat for that one!

I agree with last part of your post! And what if a builder does everything correct and then some ditch digger moron puts a few holes in the liner, you know a Chumlee type [Pawn Stars] that is paid for the work and not for the brains lol.
 

HTH

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There are people breeding nice koi in the USA. I guess there are more bragging rights if one spends the money to import them.

And it is their right, but not my sort of game. Not that I could afford it. Sort of like buying a custom car and then busting your buttons when it wins first prize at a car show.
 

waynefrcan

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Did you not read this entire topic? Point is retailers are finding it extremely hard to import any koi into Canada for last 2 years. Therefore many are just not doing it. This is putting a damper on the pond business among other things talked about in this topic.

I myself would not have done as large a pond if I couldn't get some pretty Koi to put in them.

One retailer is relying on re-sale of turned in koi from customers of unwanted ponds. Yikes! wonder what diseases they will have?
 
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I've seen the online effect on business happen in auto parts, bookstores, salt water aquarium business and of course record stores.

The funny thing, is that here in Calgary, the retailer with the reputation for the highest prices, is still in business. He had to change what he was carrying for a while, but as time went on, the online places who had cheaper prices and no follow up, plus people that were conducting business out of their basements have come and gone many times.

If someone came into his store demanding the lowest price, he just said no. He focused on his best paying high end customers and he is still in business.

Wasn't it Amazon a few years ago that offered a price match plus a $5 discount on any item that you took a picture of (from one of their competitors brick and mortar stores), sent it in and then ordered from them?
 

crsublette

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Personally, I think there are some unbelievely nice wakins, comets and shunbunkins fish out there that can give the koi sold in pet stores a run for their money. Sure, goldfish do not get as big as a carp and, even though I am Texan where folk say "bigger is better", I do not entirely agree with it. Koi keeping has a long history of prestige and breeding and this is why I think there is much money out their involved with them. I would not mind at all having a big pond of 10~14" very nice looking goldfish eventhough they are not the size of a buick. The very nice goldfish from Hawaii have a tremendous shipping cost and I would definitely pay it to have one of their nice goldfish. :)


Quite likely 4 reasons why pond stores do not do as good as they might should be performing: 1) Economy determining what the consumer can afford to buy; 2) Government interference by preventing a product, reducing international and global commerce; 3) Technology; 4) Perseverance, vision, networking, and evolving.

I think point #1 and #2 is a self explanatory. Ponding is one of those niche luxury interests that is definitely not as recission proof such as agriculture. However, in agriculture, resources, weather, Mother Nature, and government interference determines whether we stay in business. The commonality though between the two is that good decisions, not denying opportunity when it presents itself, and taking reasonable risks is what makes a business successful.

There have been many old family farms that have sold out simply due to not wanting to evolve, not wanting to make a smaller paycheck, and can't seem to stop making bad decisions. So many folk have asked me why I have not completely sold out yet and how I am surviving. Welp, I am surviving since I still enjoy agriculture, make good decisions, reasonable risks, willing to take a smaller paycheck and have fewer luxuries, and still have that perseverance, vision, networking, and never stop evolving how I farm. Too many folk are stuck in a particular lifestyle or farming fad or do not budge from their old traditional methodoligies and do not adapt.

Point #3. Technology. To show how I relate to this and have experienced this as a family farmer, nowadays, I am capable of managing and operating 2,000 acres of irrigatable farm land by myself for the majority of the year, with the occasional one or two extra, part time, seasonal work. Since I don't have to rogue or manually harvest any of my crops, my labor input costs, including all of the other costs of hiring someone, are very low. Back when my grandfather was managing and operating this farm with the same crops, he had at the very least a dozen employees to do what I do now due to smaller machinery and lack of technology. I think this is the big difference between online retailers and the contemporary retailer. The online retailers just need a warehouse, their own shop that includes their offices, a couple or handful of employees, and from here they can reach many more consumers without the very significant additional employees and input costs of opening a new store in multiple locations. There are obvious disadvantages of online retailers such as the lack of the hands on experience, talking to someone in person, and knowing there is someone locally in the area within a reasonable distance for possible assistance.

Personally, I would much rather do business with folk in person, but the fact of the matter is that more and more folk are becoming comfortable with doing business without this personal interaction or personal connection. I think it is a very significant opportunity lost for even the local pond store guy to not have a very strong online presence and to not attempt to digitize their business. It is very easy to do and no where as expensive as it used to be 15 years ago, which brings me to point #4.

Point #4. Perseverance, vision, networking, and never stop evolving.

It really bugs me when I hear a business say, " I stopped doing it since it was too much of a headache. ". I understand the possible risk to reputation when doing such things and the consequences of when a business fails to deliver customer satisfaction. Due to the age of information and technology, it is much easier for folk to express their negative experiences and even easier to publicly announce it versus sharing the positive since folk are more willing to express boisterous complaints rather than express appreciation and gratitude for when a product has been positive for them. Unfortunately, this does scare many folk and this fear dictates their actions that then prevents them from growing their business and, ultimately, this shortcoming becomes the downfall of their business.


My personal belief is that, if a business stops reinventing some aspect (be it small or large) of their business, then they are doomed to fail.
 
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I agree with everything you said Charles, except for the part about having an online presence is easy.

I'm seeing more and more demands for WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) livestock offerings. This is an extremely time consuming aspect of offering livestock for sale on line and it also requires some degree of photographic and software skills to accurately reflect the appearance.
For a one person operation with a retail store front to operate as well, it's probably not worth it because if it's not done right, you'll wind up with a whole new list of complaints from customers that didn't get what they were expecting.

I've read many "horror" stories from upset customers (whether there is a valid complaint or not) and we all know how easy it is to complain about something online.
The retailer is at the mercy of the rumor mill. It's really not fair, but that's the way it is.
 

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