Kit or Piece by Piece ?

[Culchie]

I'm going to have about a 3000 gallon pond with fish. I was wondering if it's cheaper to go with a kit ( let's say a 20x30, 5,200 Savio kit $1450 ), or buy piece by piece with quality items ??

Also I was thinking as an overflow, to build a dry creek going from the big pond to a smaller 600 gallon pond with no fish and a fountain. What all do I need for the smaller pond, besides a pump for the fountain ? I don't need all the equipment that is required for the large pond do I ?

Thanks

 

[Waterbug]

Correct, a pond with no fish, or few fish wouldn't need any equipment.

 

[sissy]

I would price it out piece by piece and really found some good prices at eastern koi.com and webbs online .Liners you can get anywhere and even can use rubber roofing ,just clean it good .I have even seen rubber roofing at builders discount center cheap and you could check out Fins and Feathers as it is in Northern VA and they have online page also .I stop there every time i come back from NJ

 

[fishin4cars]

What would the goal be if not buying a kit? To save money/ or to get better quality equipment? If it's to save money the kit would probably be best option. I prefer certain equipment over other. Such as 2" flex tubing, I don't like using it, would rather use PVC, I can get it local so no additional shipping cost. Buying piece by piece gives you the option to create what you feel is best for your situation, but it can be more costly as you upgrade equipment, pay additional shipping, and return items that didn't fit.
If you are going to use a kit, I would stick with Atlantic, Savio, or similar kits. Not the no name kits with minimal filtration," FREE" start up chemicals, and the cheapest kits out there. Most of those kits aren't worth fooling with.

 

[sissy]

I did notice that a lot of the cheaper kits come with pressure filters and they are usually not very good and can cause more work and more problems than they are worth .Nextag on the net does allow you to compare prices of them but are limited to certain dealers and kits can be a bit confusing on what you get and what you don't get .I checked a lot of them out on the net for a neighbor and it cost so much less to do it your self and buy the parts and pieces locally .No shipping and no headaches .We built her filter .

 

[Waterbug]

If the choice is between this kit and building the same general pond of your own design there are more choices. Cost more in learning time. For example the 2" flex PVC with a 5200 GPH pump means you'd be paying to push water thru such a small pipe. Choosing a 3" pipe would get you more water pumped for the same power cost. Not a huge difference, but choices like that can be made.

 

[Culchie]

Well my reason would be to do whatever is to my advantage. Of course I like to shop around and save money. But also, being a newbie, I figure the kit would make it simple for me. So long as the componants are of good quality. I like saving money, but I don't like cheap stuff on a big project. So I was hoping maybe someone knew of places I could get the same componants in the kit for a better price. But I guess you're saying that if it is a good brand like Savio, Atlantic or Pond Builder, then the kit would be good. If anyone has had very good experiences with a certain brand or important componant let me know.


Thanks Guys

 

[sissy]

The thing is if the big pond will be going into the small pond you will need something or algae will grow from the poo that will collect in the smaller pond and you will have to be careful with really heavy rains that fish do not end up being washed down to the smaller pond

 

[sissy]

remember also that pumps don't last forever and no matter what you people do they end up changing things or upgrading things or wishing they should have done this or that .Or even bought some thing else .I would never spend over a certain amount and end up regretting you spent so much .There are things around my home that I would rather put my money towards .So the money you spend is up to you but you can check out ratings of items online also .I always check out consumer affairs

 

[Culchie]

If it rains that hard for that long, I will build an ark. lol Hopefully the drycreek rocks will be big enough to let the water out, but keep fish in. I guess you never stop learning things on an endeaver like this.

 

[sissy]

Well last night we got so much rain that my pond is up over 4 inches .I was amazed when I went out this morning ans saw the plant basket under water when yesterday the top was out of the water .I knew it rained all night but did not realize it rained that much .I have sound proofing board on the out side and inside so I can't hear when it rains ,I happen to get up to leave the dogs out to pee and it was pouring down out side .

 

[Waterbug]

The components are fine...but they don't really go together. The manufacturer of the pump specs a 3" line, not 2".

 

[Culchie]

I read somewhere that if you have fish in your pond, you would want the water to be circulated twice an hour. Which would mean I need double the size pump per gallon of my pond. But I just watched a video from a vendor that said it needs to be circulated once every two hours. What's the right choice. Could make a difference in money for a pump I choose. And is there a chart somewhere that compares the price to opererate (monthly) pumps ? Or is it really not much difference in pumps that have the same GPM rating ? Thanks.

Wow. That 3" PVC hose is pricey. :sad:

 

[Waterbug]

The right circulation choice technically would be related to fish load, surface area, water temp, amount of food fed...you get the idea. It's much simpler to just say some number of times per hour. Ease vs accurate.

I don't know of any web site or app that can compare pumps by operating costs. It's pretty complex. For example on your pump I looked at pipe friction loss for 5200 GPH thru 2" PVC and then the manufacturer's flow chart to see how much less water is actually pumped because of the undersized pipe. But I don't know what head your system will actually have, or the actual length of pipe, number of fittings. Plus the manufacturer didn't easily provide a power curve chart that shows actual watts used at different heads. Pretty complex. I don't think most people are that interested in all that work. I'm working on a pond design software application that will hopefully be able to compare pumps to a specific pond design...but won't be ready for a long time.

3" PVC is indeed pricey. Most people I think use the rigid, still not cheap, but cheaper.

 

[Craig58]

Personally I'd go with buying the individual components. Everything kind of depends on your goal for the pond. Turnover of the pond can depend on a number of factors. How many and what type of fish are you planning on having. Bottom drain? Skimmer? Both?

Typically a turn over rate of once per hour is a good starting point. But if you want a lot of big koi or just lots of fish, you might need twice an hour. If you are a plant person, and just plan on keeping a few goldfish for insect control, once every two hours is probably fine. Go bigger than you think you need. Most people are bad at fish population control!

Use PVC where possible but avoid 90's in your pipe wherever possible. I used PVC for a lot of the straight runs and flex pipe to make the turns to avoid the sharp 90's. I also used the flex pipe closer to the ground surfaces where I might be concerned about freezing. Typical PVC pipe gets brittle when exposed to the sunlight and repetitive freezing cycles I've found.

My biggest suggestion is design, design, design. The more you review the design and plan now, the happier you'll be. My wife and I probably spent over a year in the design phase of each of our ponds.

Craig