Native Gardening

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JBtheExplorer, May 17, 2016.

  1. JBtheExplorer

    JBtheExplorer Native Gardener

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    5,842
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Good stuff, @CountryEscape! Hopefully, some day I can convince you to replace those non natives with natives!
     
    JBtheExplorer, Jan 31, 2018
    1. Advertisements

  2. JBtheExplorer

    JamieB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    North Oklahoma
    Has anyone had any success with Indian paintbrush? I can gather seeds from wild plants this summer/ fall, the two times I tried, I got nothing. Being in Oklahoma, I’d like a plant that can take the spring floods and summer drought, which they do very well. We’ll get lots of rain in the spring, washed the road out, lots of mud, soggy ground, and with the river backing the property, if we get too much rain, it can flood the back field, almost to the house. Then in the summer, we won’t get much rain at all. We’ve got wild violets here, which I adore. I can gather wild seed heads from a variety of plants, but I don’t know the best way to grow them. The violets stay in the wooded area for shade, so no worries there, but what is the best way to grow the milkweeds, butterfly weeds, etc. any advice appreciated
     
    JamieB, Jan 31, 2018
    1. Advertisements

  3. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    Jamie, usually the milkweed and butterfly weed (what JB is calling orange milkweed, same thing) grow very well in any type of soil, drought included. BUT, to get them to grow from seed, the seeds must be "cold stratified". That means, as they would in nature, the seeds need to go through cold/damp, then warmer, then cold(freezing)/damp, warm several times. It might be the same thing about the Indian Paintbrush! I'd LOVE some seeds of that.
    I looked up the Indian Paintbrush, and how to grow it, and found something I've never heard of before! This is what the site said (JB, have you ever grown it, and if so, is this correct?):
    "The Indian Paintbrush needs a good host plant to grow. Good hosts for many hemiparasitic species include low-growing grasses and sedges like Hairy Grama, Blue Grama, Buffalo Grass, Common Oak Sedge, Sweet Grass, and June Grass. With a knife make a 2" deep cut at the base of the host plant. Sow seed in the cut, making sure seed is not more than 1/8" deep. If host is transplanted at sowing time, the cut is not needed because damaged roots will be available for attachment by the parasite. You may also try sowing hemiparasitic and host species seeds together at the same time. To add hemiparasitic species to existing sites, scatter seed on soil surface (rake in if seed is large) in late fall."
    And, JB, the only flowers that I grow that are not native, are annuals for extra color and for the butterflies, like zinnias. The queen Anne's lace will eventually take over the dill/fennel/parsley, once I have enough of it established and can show that the black swallowtail butterflies prefer it. :) Believe me, I've been working hard to gather more each year! My State has a Native Plant Sale in the spring that I have gone to the last 2 years, and last year I helped transplant the seedlings to bigger pots, so learned a LOT at that outing as well. This year hoping to help out at both transplant dates. So much fun to learn new stuff!!!
     
    CountryEscape, Jan 31, 2018
    JamieB likes this.
  4. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    Lisa, yes this is my 4th year winter sowing. I have never taped,but I have lots of moisture here, and the jugs are on south side of the building. In the picture the jugs are not even closed, as I couldn't find my pipe cleaners, but they are all closed now. I've just always used the pipe cleaner to close it, as it's much easier to open and shut once the weather warms up. But, I know many from the page I'm on say taping is the only way to go. I think if you have a dryer climate, tape would definitely hold in more moisture than the pipe cleaner, too. I just water if/when needed once the seedlings sprout. ;)
     
    CountryEscape, Jan 31, 2018
  5. JBtheExplorer

    Lisak1

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    6,933
    Likes Received:
    7,786
    Location:
    Northern IL
    I've seen other people say they don't tape either - I was just taught that the tape helps keep the warmth inside. But I think this is a method that allows for lots of leeway.

    I'm on a few Facebook wintersowing groups and I can barely stand it - the people who insist there's only one right way, combined with those who say "I've never tried this but I don't believe it will work" added to the "I'm in zone WHATEVER, when do I start?" on top of the "you can't start THOSE SEEDS until THIS DATE" are enough to take all the fun out of the whole endeavor. One woman routinely chastises anyone who dares to try using seeds that aren't THIS YEAR'S SEEDS. It's like it's her mission in life to get everyone to throw away their old seeds. Calm down people! haha!
     
    Lisak1, Jan 31, 2018
    CountryEscape likes this.
  6. JBtheExplorer

    JamieB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    North Oklahoma
    Darn I wish I had the seeds gathered already! I’ll just have to gather them this year, and plant them next year. Well, that works out, since I need to kill off a lot of the weeds there this year anyway, and plan to cover most of it with plastic. So next year, when I till it in the spring, I need to do so when temps are like this, a warm winter day, ground thawed, but with cold snaps still due. Then I can plant the seeds, and see how they do when things warm up for good. Maybe it’s better to learn this now, and just stick to my plan of killing the grass this year. I need to get off my butt and go dig up the bulbs. Not feeling very energized, still need more coffee.
     
    JamieB, Jan 31, 2018
    CountryEscape likes this.
  7. JBtheExplorer

    JamieB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    North Oklahoma
    I’ll try to post when I gather some, if I can spare money for shipping, I’ll share with others. Two or three years ago, I had a huge amount of seeds. I raked my side yard, scattered the seeds, then raked back over. Got nothing. If I can gather enough, I’ll put them in well folded paper, put it in an envelope, and mail them like a letter. The ones I end up gathering are an amazing color, like a cross between neon pink, and a hint of orange, just shy of neon colors. I don’t have any pics anymore, I deleted a bunch of random pics off my phone.
     
    JamieB, Jan 31, 2018
  8. JBtheExplorer

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    33,625
    Likes Received:
    18,444
    Location:
    Frederick, Maryland
    geez I am a bad seed momma...................I just toss the suckers out and say good luck...............well after tilling and killing all the weeds.
     
    addy1, Jan 31, 2018
    JBtheExplorer and CountryEscape like this.
  9. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    JamieB, I would be MORE than happy to send you a SASE! PM me with your address, and I'll send an envelope and some hints on how to send the seeds so they take one stamp. I just mailed out 12 different types of seeds to a lady, and I didn't skimp ... still cost only 1 stamp. I'm really good at how to put them in the envelope. LOL It works!
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 1, 2018
  10. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    LOL, Addy, "Bad seed mama"!!! I tried putting plants into my wild flower area, without first killing all the grass, or at least not killing it well enough. I lost a lot of plants I had purchased, so was more careful last year! I learned NOT to till if I didn't want all the old seeds to grow, and instead to just work up the area where I was putting plants. But, that won't work if you're tossing seeds. The next area I'm going to tackle is thick with very established grass that has not been mowed for 4 years, so it's not as thick at the base, but very thick clumps. My plan is to round up most of it, but leave all the dead grass as mulch and ground cover, then plant in the dead stuff. That worked great in my other area, too! This is what the "wild flower garden" area looked like 2 years ago and this was after I had weeded in it for 2 days! Yuck! Can't wait to see what it looks like this year. :) wild flower garden area.JPG
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 1, 2018
  11. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    Lisa, I know what you mean about people thinking it's their way or no way! Geesh ... winter sowing is supposed to be FUN! I'm on a Facebook page called ... Winter Sowers. The administrators are always on hand to knock someone off the page if they get beligerant. It's not allowed on her page! And, people have lots of opinions on this page, but they are kind about it. The person who started the page is kind of like "Mom". If someone is getting out of hand, you just have to tag Trudie or one of the other administrators and they will chastise the person, or simply remove them. I love that about the page!
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 1, 2018
  12. JBtheExplorer

    JamieB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    North Oklahoma
    I’ll gather as much as I can this year, late summer, fall time frame if I get out there then. I know I’ll be out there early to mid June, but I doubt there will be a lot of seeds ready then. I’ll just gather what I can. Sadly, where I know I can gather them is a three hour drive from home, but I’ve seen a few other places they are starting to grow, so if I see them, before they get mowed down, I’ll grab some.
     
    JamieB, Feb 1, 2018
    CountryEscape likes this.
  13. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    Oh heck, don't drive 3 hours! IF you go by some that have gone to seed, grab some. Keep a baggie and something to cut them off with in your car just in case. LOL My beautiful daughter in law got me a pruner and box of zip loc bags and a permanent marker and said, "Put these in your car and don't take them out!" LOL She knows me well. I've used them many many times already.
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 1, 2018
  14. JBtheExplorer

    Lisak1

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    6,933
    Likes Received:
    7,786
    Location:
    Northern IL
    I had to unfollow two of the pages I was on - I can't handle people who spend no time reading AT ALL, join the group and say "someone please tell me everything I need to know about doing this". Or "I don't know what zone I'm in but tell me what seeds can I start right now?" Or the best of all - "I have no idea what this is all about - can someone tell me?" SO WHY ON EARTH DID YOU JOIN THE GROUP! haha! I'm getting crabby in my advancing age!
     
    Lisak1, Feb 1, 2018
    CountryEscape likes this.
  15. JBtheExplorer

    JamieB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    North Oklahoma
    I freely admit I have a black thumb. That’s why I like hardy natives, bulbs, and herbs. Getting the natives started seems to be the hard part for me. I guess I just need to do more research, learn about stuff like when each batch of seeds needs to go out, if it needs another plant to grow with, etc.
     
    JamieB, Feb 1, 2018
    CountryEscape likes this.
  16. JBtheExplorer

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    33,625
    Likes Received:
    18,444
    Location:
    Frederick, Maryland
    I gather seeds every summer from the plants in the yard then toss them back out in the fall.
     
    addy1, Feb 1, 2018
  17. JBtheExplorer

    JamieB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    North Oklahoma
    Look up pitcher clematis, I couldn’t get the pic to post. I’ve got those wild on the fence line, so pretty. A dusky purple color. It said seeds need to be cold stratified, that’s where they are planted before last frost right? Like in the fall.
     
    JamieB, Feb 2, 2018
  18. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    Cold stratification happens when seeds go through cold, warm, cold many times and often for extended periods of times. There is also moisture involved in this stratification. So, think wet snow/ice and then the ground thaws and it's muddy, only to freeze again. The seeds need that! Most milkweed seeds need cold stratification. Some seeds need it for 10 days, others for 3 months or more.
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 2, 2018
  19. JBtheExplorer

    JBtheExplorer Native Gardener

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    5,842
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I do know about Indian Paintbrush and the difficulty of getting it to grow given that it's a parasite. I've chosen to avoid it for that reason. It doesn't seem worth the effort. I've seen it in the wild and it's an amazing plant to see in person. If it was easier to grow, I'd already have it! :)


    I believe we've talked about this before, so it probably doesn't need to be repeated, but worth mentioning for others who'd like to help Black Swallowtails: Queen Anne's Lace is an invasive non-native biennial. It's one of the common "roadside plants" that has taken over and out-competed native species in disturbed areas. You might find that it helps Black Swallowtails, but can lead to habitat degradation that affects other species in the long run. I'd highly recommend the native, and more attractive Golden Alexanders (Zizia aurea), or Heart-leaved Alexanders (Zizia aptera). I tried to grow Golden Alexanders last year but sadly I had old seeds that instantly molded. You never quite know the quality of seed you get on ebay, but it was super cheap and worth trying.
     
    JBtheExplorer, Feb 2, 2018
    CountryEscape likes this.
  20. JBtheExplorer

    CountryEscape

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    Location:
    near Effingham, Illinois
    OMG, I did NOT know about QAL being invasive and not native. Thanks for that! I soooo want to grow Golden Alexander. I know it's growing in the State Park in Indiana where my DIL is manager, but I don't trust myself to gather the seeds. I think I'd rather spend more money and buy a plant (if I could find a plant ... working on my local nursery to offer more natives ... they are getting there!!!) or seeds from a reputable dealer!
    In the meantime, must feed the swallowtails, so I am again growing dill and fennel and parsley. LOL I'm looking into host plants/trees for the tiger and giant swallowtails this year! I can't remember right now, but thinking one of them uses the tulip tree. Have to look it up this evening, but bet you know, since I think you said something about a few trees, tulip being one of them. :)
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 2, 2018
    JBtheExplorer likes this.
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.