Native Gardening

[JBtheExplorer]

Good stuff, @CountryEscape! Hopefully, some day I can convince you to replace those non natives with natives!

 

[JamieB]

Has anyone had any success with Indian paintbrush? I can gather seeds from wild plants this summer/ fall, the two times I tried, I got nothing. Being in Oklahoma, I’d like a plant that can take the spring floods and summer drought, which they do very well. We’ll get lots of rain in the spring, washed the road out, lots of mud, soggy ground, and with the river backing the property, if we get too much rain, it can flood the back field, almost to the house. Then in the summer, we won’t get much rain at all. We’ve got wild violets here, which I adore. I can gather wild seed heads from a variety of plants, but I don’t know the best way to grow them. The violets stay in the wooded area for shade, so no worries there, but what is the best way to grow the milkweeds, butterfly weeds, etc. any advice appreciated

 

[CountryEscape]

Jamie, usually the milkweed and butterfly weed (what JB is calling orange milkweed, same thing) grow very well in any type of soil, drought included. BUT, to get them to grow from seed, the seeds must be "cold stratified". That means, as they would in nature, the seeds need to go through cold/damp, then warmer, then cold(freezing)/damp, warm several times. It might be the same thing about the Indian Paintbrush! I'd LOVE some seeds of that.
I looked up the Indian Paintbrush, and how to grow it, and found something I've never heard of before! This is what the site said (JB, have you ever grown it, and if so, is this correct?):
"The Indian Paintbrush needs a good host plant to grow. Good hosts for many hemiparasitic species include low-growing grasses and sedges like Hairy Grama, Blue Grama, Buffalo Grass, Common Oak Sedge, Sweet Grass, and June Grass. With a knife make a 2" deep cut at the base of the host plant. Sow seed in the cut, making sure seed is not more than 1/8" deep. If host is transplanted at sowing time, the cut is not needed because damaged roots will be available for attachment by the parasite. You may also try sowing hemiparasitic and host species seeds together at the same time. To add hemiparasitic species to existing sites, scatter seed on soil surface (rake in if seed is large) in late fall."
And, JB, the only flowers that I grow that are not native, are annuals for extra color and for the butterflies, like zinnias. The queen Anne's lace will eventually take over the dill/fennel/parsley, once I have enough of it established and can show that the black swallowtail butterflies prefer it. Believe me, I've been working hard to gather more each year! My State has a Native Plant Sale in the spring that I have gone to the last 2 years, and last year I helped transplant the seedlings to bigger pots, so learned a LOT at that outing as well. This year hoping to help out at both transplant dates. So much fun to learn new stuff!!!

 

[CountryEscape]

@CountryEscape - have you done winter sowing before? I noticed you don't tape your jugs to seal them. I've always taped mine to create a tighter seal to increase the temperature inside the jug and keep moisture inside. I'm curious what your experience is without the taping.

Lisa, yes this is my 4th year winter sowing. I have never taped,but I have lots of moisture here, and the jugs are on south side of the building. In the picture the jugs are not even closed, as I couldn't find my pipe cleaners, but they are all closed now. I've just always used the pipe cleaner to close it, as it's much easier to open and shut once the weather warms up. But, I know many from the page I'm on say taping is the only way to go. I think if you have a dryer climate, tape would definitely hold in more moisture than the pipe cleaner, too. I just water if/when needed once the seedlings sprout.

 

[Lisak1]

I've seen other people say they don't tape either - I was just taught that the tape helps keep the warmth inside. But I think this is a method that allows for lots of leeway.

I'm on a few Facebook wintersowing groups and I can barely stand it - the people who insist there's only one right way, combined with those who say "I've never tried this but I don't believe it will work" added to the "I'm in zone WHATEVER, when do I start?" on top of the "you can't start THOSE SEEDS until THIS DATE" are enough to take all the fun out of the whole endeavor. One woman routinely chastises anyone who dares to try using seeds that aren't THIS YEAR'S SEEDS. It's like it's her mission in life to get everyone to throw away their old seeds. Calm down people! haha!

 

[JamieB]

Darn I wish I had the seeds gathered already! I’ll just have to gather them this year, and plant them next year. Well, that works out, since I need to kill off a lot of the weeds there this year anyway, and plan to cover most of it with plastic. So next year, when I till it in the spring, I need to do so when temps are like this, a warm winter day, ground thawed, but with cold snaps still due. Then I can plant the seeds, and see how they do when things warm up for good. Maybe it’s better to learn this now, and just stick to my plan of killing the grass this year. I need to get off my butt and go dig up the bulbs. Not feeling very energized, still need more coffee.

 

[JamieB]

Jamie, usually the milkweed and butterfly weed (what JB is calling orange milkweed, same thing) grow very well in any type of soil, drought included. BUT, to get them to grow from seed, the seeds must be "cold stratified". That means, as they would in nature, the seeds need to go through cold/damp, then warmer, then cold(freezing)/damp, warm several times. It might be the same thing about the Indian Paintbrush! I'd LOVE some seeds of that.
I looked up the Indian Paintbrush, and how to grow it, and found something I've never heard of before! This is what the site said (JB, have you ever grown it, and if so, is this correct?):
"The Indian Paintbrush needs a good host plant to grow. Good hosts for many hemiparasitic species include low-growing grasses and sedges like Hairy Grama, Blue Grama, Buffalo Grass, Common Oak Sedge, Sweet Grass, and June Grass. With a knife make a 2" deep cut at the base of the host plant. Sow seed in the cut, making sure seed is not more than 1/8" deep. If host is transplanted at sowing time, the cut is not needed because damaged roots will be available for attachment by the parasite. You may also try sowing hemiparasitic and host species seeds together at the same time. To add hemiparasitic species to existing sites, scatter seed on soil surface (rake in if seed is large) in late fall."
And, JB, the only flowers that I grow that are not native, are annuals for extra color and for the butterflies, like zinnias. The queen Anne's lace will eventually take over the dill/fennel/parsley, once I have enough of it established and can show that the black swallowtail butterflies prefer it. Believe me, I've been working hard to gather more each year! My State has a Native Plant Sale in the spring that I have gone to the last 2 years, and last year I helped transplant the seedlings to bigger pots, so learned a LOT at that outing as well. This year hoping to help out at both transplant dates. So much fun to learn new stuff!!!

I’ll try to post when I gather some, if I can spare money for shipping, I’ll share with others. Two or three years ago, I had a huge amount of seeds. I raked my side yard, scattered the seeds, then raked back over. Got nothing. If I can gather enough, I’ll put them in well folded paper, put it in an envelope, and mail them like a letter. The ones I end up gathering are an amazing color, like a cross between neon pink, and a hint of orange, just shy of neon colors. I don’t have any pics anymore, I deleted a bunch of random pics off my phone.

 

[addy1]

geez I am a bad seed momma...................I just toss the suckers out and say good luck...............well after tilling and killing all the weeds.

 

[CountryEscape]

I’ll try to post when I gather some, if I can spare money for shipping, I’ll share with others. Two or three years ago, I had a huge amount of seeds. I raked my side yard, scattered the seeds, then raked back over. Got nothing. If I can gather enough, I’ll put them in well folded paper, put it in an envelope, and mail them like a letter. The ones I end up gathering are an amazing color, like a cross between neon pink, and a hint of orange, just shy of neon colors. I don’t have any pics anymore, I deleted a bunch of random pics off my phone.

JamieB, I would be MORE than happy to send you a SASE! PM me with your address, and I'll send an envelope and some hints on how to send the seeds so they take one stamp. I just mailed out 12 different types of seeds to a lady, and I didn't skimp ... still cost only 1 stamp. I'm really good at how to put them in the envelope. LOL It works!

 

[CountryEscape]

LOL, Addy, "Bad seed mama"!!! I tried putting plants into my wild flower area, without first killing all the grass, or at least not killing it well enough. I lost a lot of plants I had purchased, so was more careful last year! I learned NOT to till if I didn't want all the old seeds to grow, and instead to just work up the area where I was putting plants. But, that won't work if you're tossing seeds. The next area I'm going to tackle is thick with very established grass that has not been mowed for 4 years, so it's not as thick at the base, but very thick clumps. My plan is to round up most of it, but leave all the dead grass as mulch and ground cover, then plant in the dead stuff. That worked great in my other area, too! This is what the "wild flower garden" area looked like 2 years ago and this was after I had weeded in it for 2 days! Yuck! Can't wait to see what it looks like this year.

 

[CountryEscape]

Lisa, I know what you mean about people thinking it's their way or no way! Geesh ... winter sowing is supposed to be FUN! I'm on a Facebook page called ... Winter Sowers. The administrators are always on hand to knock someone off the page if they get beligerant. It's not allowed on her page! And, people have lots of opinions on this page, but they are kind about it. The person who started the page is kind of like "Mom". If someone is getting out of hand, you just have to tag Trudie or one of the other administrators and they will chastise the person, or simply remove them. I love that about the page!

 

[JamieB]

I’ll gather as much as I can this year, late summer, fall time frame if I get out there then. I know I’ll be out there early to mid June, but I doubt there will be a lot of seeds ready then. I’ll just gather what I can. Sadly, where I know I can gather them is a three hour drive from home, but I’ve seen a few other places they are starting to grow, so if I see them, before they get mowed down, I’ll grab some.

 

[CountryEscape]

Oh heck, don't drive 3 hours! IF you go by some that have gone to seed, grab some. Keep a baggie and something to cut them off with in your car just in case. LOL My beautiful daughter in law got me a pruner and box of zip loc bags and a permanent marker and said, "Put these in your car and don't take them out!" LOL She knows me well. I've used them many many times already.

 

[Lisak1]

Lisa, I know what you mean about people thinking it's their way or no way! Geesh ... winter sowing is supposed to be FUN! I'm on a Facebook page called ... Winter Sowers. The administrators are always on hand to knock someone off the page if they get beligerant. It's not allowed on her page! And, people have lots of opinions on this page, but they are kind about it. The person who started the page is kind of like "Mom". If someone is getting out of hand, you just have to tag Trudie or one of the other administrators and they will chastise the person, or simply remove them. I love that about the page!

I had to unfollow two of the pages I was on - I can't handle people who spend no time reading AT ALL, join the group and say "someone please tell me everything I need to know about doing this". Or "I don't know what zone I'm in but tell me what seeds can I start right now?" Or the best of all - "I have no idea what this is all about - can someone tell me?" SO WHY ON EARTH DID YOU JOIN THE GROUP! haha! I'm getting crabby in my advancing age!

 

[JamieB]

I freely admit I have a black thumb. That’s why I like hardy natives, bulbs, and herbs. Getting the natives started seems to be the hard part for me. I guess I just need to do more research, learn about stuff like when each batch of seeds needs to go out, if it needs another plant to grow with, etc.