New Koi Owner-Please Help

[getsisfam]

We have recently moved into a new residence in Central New Jersey. The new house has a koi pond fish with the following specs:

- 1000 galleon pond with gravel on the bottom
- 3 waterfalls
- 2 oxygen pumps submerged in the water
- UV light in the back (attached to filter)
- Currently, 9 koi (6 other ones died due to a faulty water change, another one died after a heavy rainstorm)
- Recently, we bought 4 "red" plants to battle the phosphates.

We are having serious problems with maintaining the water chemistry and we are constantly worried about the fish's health. While the previous owner had a detailed and specific schedule, we have been told he was not doing things right and it was only a matter of time before the fish's health was effected.

When I measured the water chemistry this morning, it read:

Phosphates: Were high, around 5, were told it should be around 0.
pH: 6.5 in the morning. Fluncutates throughout the day, but not by much.
Nitrates/ammonia: on point and stable.

Our care of the fish consists of feeding them a mixture of koi food and cheerios, about a handful each day (as much as they can eat in 5 minutes). We only add enzymes/bacteria/chemicals, when doing water changes.

We are very worried that we are not doing something right. Also, the high level of phosphate has us worried.

If anyone can provide us with details on how to take care of the fish, as well as ensure that they are healthy and happy, that would be wonderful. If any more information is needed, please do not hesitate to ask.

Attached are some pictures of our pond (Along with some weird white spots on the big red fish which we are concerned about)

Thank you for your time and help!











Getsfam.

 

[sissy]

Welcome and the reason you are having problems is that pond is to small and koi produce a lot of waste and it may even be trapped in the gravel .You may have to over filter it before winter .how deep is it ,does not look very deep .I lived in Edison and had a fountain pond but only goldies .Ph is very low and arm and hammer baking soda you put in you fridge will raise it .You have city water .

 

[Waterbug]

A topic close to my heart. When I sold my last home with a Koi pond I also left detailed instructions and my contact info. The new owners did stay in contact about others things but not the pond. Instead they hired an "expert" who "fixed" the pond. All the fish were dead shortly thereafter. I'm not a fan of "experts". They're experts at selling stuff and most know virtually nothing about ponds or care to learn anything. This "expert" cost the new owners about $3,000 in products and damage. The joy of waking up to a pond of dead fish...priceless.

Phosphates
Why are you worried about phosphates? It's a non-issue, or should be way far down the list imo.

Ammonia

Nitrates/ammonia: on point and stable.

I see this sooooo often..."ammonia is normal", "ammonia is at a safe level". Post the actual number. Ammonia and nitrite should be your main concern for the size of your pond and number and size of fish.

Same with nitrates, post the number. It's less typing too. However nitrate normally isn't a problem.

pH
This is a problem and is very easy to fix. Google "pond pH buffering" and read. Basically you measure KH to tell you how much acid your pond can handle before pH drops. After you understand buffering you will understand why measuring KH is important and why pH isn't. If you know KH you not only know pH but that pH is stable. Stable pH is more important than high or low pH. Fish can handle high or low, pH swings are hard on them. With a 6.5 pH I'd assume your KH is in the 0 to 80 ppm range. I like KH in the 200 ppm range, but it can't really get too high. Like Sissy said common baking soda can be used to raise KH and buffer pH. That does raise pH to the 8.3 to 9.0 range. You can adjust GH to keep pH at 8.3 if you like. Do not increase the pH until ammonia is zero. At low pH and temp ammonia is much less toxic so raising the pH can make low risk ammonia into high risk ammonia.

You can keep pH stable at whatever level you want, it's just more difficult, time consuming and risky.

Acid comes into the pond from two main sources. First it is produced by bacteria consuming waste. More fish = more waste = more acid. The next biggest source is rain water. Normal type rain is about 5.5 pH, acid rain which you would have in NJ would be in the 3.4-4.0 range, and rain from a thunderstorm can be in the 2-3 pH range. This is why losing a fish in a non-buffered pond after a thunderstorm doesn't surprise me.

With 6.5 pH you're in the range of shutting down ammonia converting bacteria. Also low KH limits their ability to convert ammonia.

Stuff in bottles

enzymes/bacteria/chemicals, when doing water changes.

Dechlorinator OK. Bacteria, enzymes, etc, is just more crap your pond has to deal with. It's a scam. Not the end of the world to dump that stuff in, but not doing you any good either.

Trickle water changes are safer imo and you don't need to add any dechlorinator. Here's a video that explains it.

Bottomline
You have a small pond for the number and size of fish. Doable, but you do have to be on your toes. Keeping a pond can be simple or as complex as you want to make it. If you understand and measure ammonia, nitrite, and KH you will have covered 90% of keeping fish alive.

From there you can branch out into more complex topics if you like and decide what direction you would like to take your pond.

Nice pond and fish.

 

[fishin4cars]

Fully agree with all above except, (Bacteria, enzymes, etc, is just more crap your pond has to deal with. It's a scam. Not the end of the world to dump that stuff in, but not doing you any good either.)
This is WB's opinion, which I greatly respect. But, IMO, There is a time, and a place where they can help. Do they all work? NO Are some a scam, YES. But, I defend that they all are. I've used some with absolutely no visual, or recordable difference or benefit. I've used some for helping the new pond along with some pretty good results. There is so much research being done with benefical enzymes, bacteria, probiotics that they are worth researching. Now that being said, Are they quick fixes or needed, NO, again I must say they need to be researched. best way is to go to a pet show, koi club, water gardening seminar, and talk to the manufacturers and the users. get multiple opinions. Also this is a great way to learn about and enjoy the hobby.
A pond can be healthy and thrive without those additional additives. It can thrive better if you understand the water and how it all works. IMO that is the biggest key to having healthy koi.
BTW, the old homeowners left a really nice pond for your enjoyment. Welcome aboard and I hope to see more from you as you advance and learn from this great site!

 

[sissy]

true there are so many miracle things out there for ponds than carter has liver pills (I know old saying )All that stuff just kills fish and they all say fish safe of course ,they have something to sell and thats all ,your money just ends up in there pockets and they laugh and say i don't care .You really don't say what kind of filter and if it is big enough to handle koi waste .I really don't think the pond is big enough or the filter is not big enough for koi .I have 2 filters and 2 pumps and mine is 24x 10 and over 4 feet .4 feet of it is shallow though .I only have 13 fish and most are goldfish .I only have 2 koi and they really produce a lot of waste and I only feed mine 2 or 3 times a week

 

[CountryEscape]

I'm curious about the water changes. What amount have you "changed" (assume emptied out and filled back in) and did you use city water? If you did use city water, you HAVE to dechlorinate it when you add it back in. But, I'm wondering why you are doing the water changes, since the water looks very clear. Do you usually have the waterfalls running, but turned them off for the pics, I assume? You need to have oxygen going into that pond, so the waterfalls are essential, unless you have other means of pushing oxygen into the pond.
I only add water when the level gets too low for the skimmer to work. I've not removed water to add more, and my water is from a well, but that can possibly be a problem, too, if the water quality is not good. Mine is excellent for koi/goldfish (PH is up where they like it), so I don't have to treat.
And, the 3 members above that have responded are experts. Listen to them, take what you want from their info, and see what you can do. I'm only in my 2nd year, but learned EVERYTHING I know about ponding from this Forum. So, welcome aboard, and I agree with Larkin, hope to see more posts from you!
I noticed no one made a comment about the white spots, but I wasn't sure which fish had white spots. Saw just one or two on the red/black fish in the 3rd photo. I have no idea, but hoping one of the others will chime back in.

 

[getsisfam]

Dear forum members,

Thank you so much for your responses and desire to help. we are really really concerned about the health of our remaining 9 fish, and their chances to survive despite reasonable water chemistry as tested by us and pond supplies store. This morning Phosphates reading was: around 8, pH: 6.5 in the morning, 7.0 at 10-45 am. Nitrates/were at 0, ammonia was between 0 to 0.25. the pond has three waterfalls with submersible pumps (beckett ) that run 24 /7 as well as an aerator with two airstones, that has been running 24/7 for the last 24 hours. filter is an old version cyprio plastic tank that used to be connected to uv light sterilzation. the water apperas to be clear at the moment with sludge on the rocks. fish receive a handful of fish food every day at 5 o'clock.
Unfortunately, there appears to be some serious health issues with 4 out of 9 remaining fish in the pond.there used to be 15 fish until 5 died during water exchange,and a couple of weeks later another fish dies for no reason.
our sick fish have the following symptoms.
A black fish that you could see on the 3rd picture (previously posted here) has been bloated and swimming on her side as well as showing her belly. I had a pond supplu guy come in and look at her, and he claimed that her scales are not raised so it is not dropsey but he does not know what it is.the fish seems very weak,streessed out,and in addition to being bloated,swimming in in weird way, it also has red strikes in her scales next to the gills. :sad: :sad: :sad:
a big red/black fish has two round shaped spots on top of her head. another fish has a round spot on her side. a big white fish has red bloody strikes on her tail.
i was told by pond guy to administer broad spectrum medication treatment for fish( paracide green) in three sessions each, while disconnecting the uv light. the guy is not an aquavet but just a store worker who learned on the job. i don't know what to do next to save the fish.
Please help save our remaining fish in the pond :sad: . your wise advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[sissy]

That ph is way to low koi need a steady 8 and are really fussy about ph .I keep mine at 9 because it seems my fish are at there best at 9 .I raised it with baking soda and then added bags of crushed oyster shells to stabilize it .I bought the bags at the dollar store and crushed oster shells at tractor supply .What is the temp of your pond water and what changes have you made in water .

 

[sissy]

The one fish could be egg bound .You could give them peas to see if they get rid of the bloat .I help my fish in the spring with organic garlic added to there food to help them feed and to help build up there immune system after a long winter .I read all about it on several sights for koi and all were by experts .I wonder if there could be some type of bacteria build up in your filter .I use quilt batting in my outlets to over filter and take anything out and also use plants in my filters

 

[sissy]

over filtering may help and not sure about your pumps have you made sure there is nothing built up on them or that the fish may be getting a small shock from them and not sure what your filters are like

 

[sissy]

:question: how big are your pumps and how old are they are any of the cases damaged and how much rain have you had lately .If you need to check the temp of your pond and don't have a thermometer than just get an out door one at a dollar store they work ok too .

 

[Waterbug]

Please help save our remaining fish in the pond :sad: . your wise advice is greatly appreciated.

Advice has been given. Good luck.

 

[getsisfam]

dear forum members
tx again for caring about my fish. i will try the peas for the bloated fish.
re temperature in the pond; i have a thermometer in the water not sure how to read it.
re pumps they appear to be Beckett submersible pumps that pump 1150 gallons per hour at 1 ft lift, i do not know how old they are. i also dont know how to check whether they are housing any harmfull bacteria and giving a shock to our fish.
re: filter; it is an old Cyprio Pond Filtration System that used to be connected to UV Sterilizer prior to 8/21/12.
re rain we have had lately; it was raining very heavily on Monday 8/27/12
as for water changes that had taken place within last month and a half.
previous owner had a rigid schedule of chemical application,namely once a month 2 cups of pond salt around the perimeter, once every three weeks microbelift without turning off the uv light,once in every three weeks stress coat,once in every three weeks pondzyme.
when our first 5 fish died post adding tap water without declorinator, nothing had been done to the pond due to our ignorance. we also did not examine dead or reamaining fish or test the water.
then another little white fish died after a rainstorm, on water tests, it read very high level of phosphates 10.0.
we put in phosfree in the pond,and added an aerator with two airstones.
the next day 8/21/12 a pond supply person came in and the following was performed.massive water exchange was performed while adding stress coat, pond had been rinsed vigourously in an attempt to remove sludge off the rocks, all parts of the filter filter were washed clean, including brushes, beads, sponges, acuaclear water treatment was added at the end of the procedure.uv was disconnected, and somehow it affected the filter because it stopped receiving water flow from the pond and remained dry inside until 8/28/12.
the pond supply guy urged to change the filtration system,and i ordered laguna 1400 filter with uv light and pump. i do not know what to do next.please advise.
i an planning to continue with paracide green second and third time,and making sure there one pump and an aerator on for 24/7.

please advice

 

[CountryEscape]

Now you're giving some good information! First of all, if your filtration system went totally dry for a full day, you lost all of your good bacteria. And, the fact that you did a "massive water exchange" (and that was at the direction of a pond supply person?????) and originally you added chlorinated water without dechlorinating it ... your fish are luck to be alive, in my opinion. Everything that was going good is now in negativity.
Someone above asked why you are testing for phosphate levels ... I wonder the same. Is it the same pond supply person? If so, I've NEVER tested for phosphates, unless in my stupidity, it has something to do with KH or GH, hardness of your water, but I don't think so.
As Sissy said, 6.5 is very low PH for koi and goldfish. They prefer much higher levels, 7.5 to 9 is good. BUT, if that is what it was previously, they should have been used to it.
My guess is that the water changes have been too much of a drastic change for the fish, and they have gone into huge stress mode. Their bodies are not able to fight off diseases (not saying they have any type of disease) and sickness due to the water chemistry being swung so drastically in such a short period of time. If the previous owners told you to do a "water change" and you thought that meant to drain most of the water and put in fresh, that is problem #1. If they told you 10%, that is still a lot. New ponders see dirty water, think that it needs to be drained and refilled. It's not a swimming pool, although we would like them to be crystal clear like one! The fish prefer it to not be that clear and clean.
Rain can be VERY low PH, so that may have driven your PH down, or your tap water is low PH. You need to check both. Then you will know if it rains 4" that you need to worry about your water PH lowering. As Sissy said, you can raise it (slowly, not all at once) with baking soda, and then use the crushed oyster shells AFTER YOU GET THE PH WHERE YOU WANT IT. This is important, as if you put the oyster shells in there (in a bag, I use nylon knee highs, tie the end shut after loading it up with the oyster shells) while the PH is low, it will keep it there. The oyster shells help to keep the PH stable. If your PH is swinging from 8 down to 6 and back up to 7 the fish are not happy about that either. You need to do everything you can to keep the PH stable. That's a HUGE key. Crushed oyster shells can help stabilize it.
Again, I'm only on my 2nd year ponding, but have learned from reading, trial and error, and been pretty successful. I wish you the best of luck with your remaining fish. And, I hate to say this, as local people are always needed, but that "pond supply person" is selling you stuff you don't need, and making matters worse in my opinion! I don't use any stress coat, or any other type of chemicals when I add water. I NEVER drain and then add water, I simply add water when it evaporates and level goes down couple of inches. I think all the treatments you have been told to do are not necessary, at least not with what the pond supply person added to the mix. I think the worst thing is the fact you have lost all of your good bacteria or much of it when your filter dried out. I use a product called Pond Perfect. It's a "beneficial bacteria" product that helps boost the good bacteria that is necessary to keep ponds clear and cycled. Since it's like you're starting out new, the filter dried out and you washed out all the sludge and filter parts, you have to get some bacteria back into the pond. It's like if you were starting brand new, and you NEVER put fish in a brand new pond until it has had a chance to cycle, meaning grow bacteria, maybe get green water (which is good and healthy for the fish, BTW, so if your water goes green, don't stress out over that!).
Waterbug, I think if you address his/her current concerns, given the new information they have provided, and keep it as simple as possible (even if you are duplicating what you said earlier), it will be welcomed!

 

[sissy]

That is to much salt these fish are not salt water fish .To me that guy just like any other store is out there to sell to keep there store open and keep there job .If they don't have a pond they more than likely don't know much .I am no expert but also in 8 years (knock 0n wood ) have never had a fish die on me .I don't use chemicals except oyster shells and activated charcoal and baking soda once in awhile and use the salt only once in awhile .