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i have nothing against those and if i have implied this im sorry. i do agree with you 100% if done right with good custodial practice = good pond set up. yours was one of the best i have seen here. im not bashing, if you think so im sorry .in today's world i see a lot of lazy people... trying to keep fish and have super clear water..with no work involved . you know as well as me that you gotta test the water. at some time its gotta be cleaned. to have good water quality. do you agree? most NEW bog pond builders will fail. like you said not adequate. or the pipes fail due to winter..i think it gives a false impression that it will FOREVER clean itself..i have mechanical home made bio, on 2 ponds no issue. cost were very low..under 100.00 they work fine but again they gotta be cleaned at some time. they will not work forever. i do have some rocks...you will find out when you get a big female egg bound full of some 2000000 eggs shes gonna get chased shes gonna rub shes gonna get beat up . i got one each year that i gotta put in my quarantine tank and get her healed. because she is so rough. even when i put her in a pond with nothing but liner she beats herself up. once again i have nothing against bio filters.. its just not my choice ..i hope this clears this up. mike
 
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addy1

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To each their own as far as ponds and filters. What works for me, might not work for someone else.
My bog has been running since 2010 with no intervention from me except yanking excessive plant growth. I don't have koi, do have have around 200ish shubunkins ,very soft count, around 11-12000 gallons of water being taken care of by the bog. Ten ponds from largish to small.
Water tests always perfect, when I decide to test. Zero other filtration. Even my hot tub pond is filtered by a container bog. The bog and or water never stink.
 

mrsclem

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Mike, my plants yellowed because I was running filters in addition to my bog and had moved all koi but 3 out. Shut down extra filters and reintroduced koi and back into balance. I've been raising and selling koi for 20+ years. Haven't tested water in years, let my fish tell me when something is off. Don't remember last bag of salt I purchased.
 
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thats seems to be the problem i have seen with the bog filters. they cant handle a fish load, they get out of balance. you run 355 gal barrel as well as a 300 gal bog... if im reading that right. whats the reason behind that? i have a 45000 now with 180+ koi filtered only with a 30 gal barrel. the water is perfect. i test each week so not to add stress. to each his on on filters. i just like more fish ..i dont loose any... mike
 
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I think of my pond as a "combo"....it has some filtration elements I've learned from koi keeping and a newly installed bog that I'm excited to play with this Spring. I love water plants ...but so do my koi !! I'm excited to see the plants grow in the new bog and am hopeful the bog adds some natural bio filtration , as well as looking beautiful.
 
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Mike, no ill will , there have been mechanical filter koi keepers who also say smooth sterile walls or a clay pond is the only way it works. Well i bet the Japanese clay ponds said that at first about the mechanical ponds. As far as i am concerned you can't argue with results . Such as your self i am beyond curious as to the single 30 gallon drum you have running 45,000 gallons and 180 Koi i would say your water is better then average to start, your pond has a very healthy coating of bacteria to help the 30 gallon filter, Oh and last but by no means least you obviously are a good custodian of your ponds.

And i believe msclem was saying that when she added mechanical filters to her set up it removed crucial organics that the bog needed to grow her plants suffered when she took the koi out and the bio load decreased. The type of bog thats pushed today in here is one that has only stone 3/8 pea or maybe even in my case 3/4 in the bog theres no soil which means without the waste products and organics theres no nutrients at all thus the bog suffered. The first year i had the pond i fed my fish like crazy as much as they wanted i gave them. In order to cycle the pond i over loaded the bio load and hoped to see what the bog could do. yes i got green water for about a month afterwards but it then cleared right up. I had several folks wonder how i had so many plants growing in a new pond as most look very sparse

At this point the only pre filter i have is the skimmer basket or the pump strainer everything else goes right to the bottom of the bog
 
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OUCH Sorry to hear it
 
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Jhn

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Mike, Sorry for your loss.

Like the many others here, my ponds rely on a bog and the pond itself is heavily planted, and proper circulation. The fish load in my large pond is a mixture of koi, orfe, catfish and goldfish. Have nothing but 2 skimmers (no filter media other than skimmer net/prefilter pads) and an air pump and have had zero problems with my fish or my pond. No green water other than the initial set up,which is establishing the base of the food chain. I will say it does take knowledge of the correct plants to plant, ie ones that will grow like wildfire and suck up the nutrients in the pond. I much prefer pulling plants to washing out filters, the aggressive plants give the koi something to munch on as well, when I don’t feed them for a bit.

Haven’t tested my water in forever and haven’t lost fish to disease since the first couple years when I first started out with ponds 30 years ago. Do I lose fish yes, but to predation, the fish aren’t the top of the food chain in my ponds. Well maybe the large ones are tied with the terrapins for the top. The little ones if they live, they live if not....oh well.

As you said it is all in what you like, do you prefer the fish to be the focal point or just the overall look of a natural pond. Many ways to skin a cat, so to speak.
 
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in today's world i see a lot of lazy people... trying to keep fish and have super clear water..with no work involved .
That's me! I'm a lazy pond keeper - I love a pond that takes care of itself. And why not? My hobby is gardening, not filter cleaning.

you know as well as me that you gotta test the water
I stopped water testing after the first year. Nothing changed and it got kind of boring.

at some time its gotta be cleaned.
Why? If your bog is plumbed correctly, you're running clear water through it. Bogs aren't for mechanical filtration - that's what skimmers are for. If there's no debris, then what am I cleaning? I have to maintain the plants in my bog, but that's gardening, not filter maintenance.

most NEW bog pond builders will fail.
New in what way? And how are NEW bog builders different than OLD ones?

Not picking on you @MIKES KOI - just providing the counterpoint to your statements. There are as many different ways to keep a pond as there are pond keepers. We're all just here learning from each other.

I'm sorry to hear about the death in your family. That's rough.
 
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would love to see a underwater video of your pond
 
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Mike, Sorry for your loss.
As you said it is all in what you like, do you prefer the fish to be the focal point or just the overall look of a natural pond. Many ways to skin a cat, so to speak.
would love to see a underwater video of your pond
 

addy1

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That's me! I'm a lazy pond keeper - I love a pond that takes care of itself. And why not? My hobby is gardening, not filter cleaning.



I stopped water testing after the first year. Nothing changed and it got kind of boring.



Why? If your bog is plumbed correctly, you're running clear water through it. Bogs aren't for mechanical filtration - that's what skimmers are for. If there's no debris, then what am I cleaning? I have to maintain the plants in my bog, but that's gardening, not filter maintenance.



New in what way? And how are NEW bog builders different than OLD ones?

Not picking on you @MIKES KOI - just providing the counterpoint to your statements. There are as many different ways to keep a pond as there are pond keepers. We're all just here learning from each other.

I'm sorry to hear about the death in your family. That's rough.
^^^^ ditto

I turn my pond on in the spring and can totally ignore it all summer if I want to. Always clean, clear water with healthy fish, frogs, snakes (sometimes) dragon flies etc etc

Never clean a filter. Occasionally clean out the skimmer, but now that the huge maple died that cleaning has been cut way back.
 
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Jhn

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would love to see a underwater video of your pond
I am not even sure what my pond looks like from underwater unless I don a snorkel and mask. Of course, would need to distract the turtles as they think anything new in the pond must be taste tested. Guess I could get some type of underwater video camera.....or get a water proof case for the iPhone, get a close up of them tasting something besides me. Might just look into that this spring, and see what goes on in the deep end of the pond away from prying eyes.
 

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