Planning our new pond

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Sissy-
The odds of being struck again have to be infinitesimal, but always better safe than sorry I guess.

For my set up I would like to have the skippys above water level so I can purge the crap. Is it possible to run the set up pictured below as number two 2, or does the system have to be run as pictured in number 1? If I put together the 2 system will the skippys over flow? Will it be possible to run the exiting water through the ground and back up into the waterfall?
View attachment 4433

View attachment 4434
 

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Koi.Comets.Happy -
My pump is rated at 3000gph, but I have a 3' head plus some restriction in the plumbing... I figured 2500 is a good guestimate.

As for your skippy setup - you can run in either configuration, the physical location of the filters is not critical, however keep in mind:
- the higher you place the filters, the harder your pump(s) will have to work to get the water INTO the filters
- If the filter is above your pond's water level, when the pumps stop running, the filters will drain back into the pond (flushing all the waste from the bottom of the filter) and likely overflow the pond.

For the backflow problem, I tapped a 1/8" hose fitting into the pipe running down from the top-center of the filter. This gives me a small stream of water to show how well the pump is working (the flow will drop off if there is a restriction in the line), and if backflow starts to happen, air will be sucked into the pipe and break the siphon.

For the position of the filter, on my setup I buried my filter barrel about half way, so the outlet is about 12 inches above the pond water level. This eliminates any excessive working of the pump and positions the barrel outlet for the waterfall.

And finally, about your purge drain in the filters... Run the drain from the bottom center of each barrel, bring the pipe back up the side, and put a T just above ground level. Attach a short (3") pipe to the side of the T and cap it off. From the top, run a straight pipe up to the height of the barrel...
-- The pressure inside the barrel will push water out of your drain pipe, and back up to at least the height of the water inside the barrel - therefore burying the barrel does not cause any problems with drainage, simply pop off the cap from the side of the T and everything from the bottom of the barrel will be purged in a few seconds.
-- You may be wondering why I include an open pipe up to the top of the barrel? The first Winter I had my pond, my drain pipe froze solid, and cracked my valve and pipe, so the moment it started to thaw, all the water drained out. With the vertical pipe, the freezing water has a place to expand to. The cap can be pushed out nearly an inch by freezing water without coming off, so I just push it back in tight in the Spring. With this setup, I've never had another pipe break.

So place your barrels somewhere between the height of your two images. Even if you don't plan on a waterfall, having the water drop from the barrels back into the pond a short distance will increase the oxygen in the water and ensure that even if your pond freezes, there will always be a hole in the ice. If my descriptions didn't make sense, I'll post some pictures to clarify.
 

sissy

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koi .comets my last name is Murphy remember the saying if anything can go wrong it will Murphy's Law .I believe it is very true .been there, done that and never going to do it again LOL :lol:
 
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My pump is a submersible that pushes the water directly into the filter, then the water gravity-feeds back out of the filter into the pond. Essentially like your #2 drawing. I've not seen a setup like you have in #1, but it seems like you would have to run pretty large pipe (like 3"?) to ensure that the gravity feed into the filter would run fast enough to keep up with the pump. I would definitely go with the plumbing from #2, regardless of if you are using submersible or external pumps, as there are fewer things to go wrong this way.

Pictures, pictures... I could have sworn I had some good shots of the filter before the plants grew in, but apparently not. You'll have to try and see the pipes that are covered by the hyacinth. Ignore the extra small pipes that don't seem to be attached to anything -- they're not (my line froze up and burst the underground pipe, can't do anything but temporary work until the Spring thaw).
IMG_5529.JPG
IMG_5530.JPG

The first picture shows a good shot of the drain pipe. You'll note my pipe actually goes higher than the side of the filter... due to the pressure of the pump, the water level is being pushed about 3" higher in this tube than the water level in the barrel. My air tap to prevent backflow is in the top of the white elbow you see leading down into the middle of the barrel.

The second picture gives you a view from the side of the drain pipe. Also if you look at the front of the barrel (underneath the mass of hyacinth), you'll see that instead of letting my water fall into the pond, I use two pipes which lead down under the water level. This arrangement still draws air down into the water, but I don't have to worry about the water getting drawn out of the pond by all the plants that would otherwise be in the way. The plants do a great job of hiding the filter, and since many of their roots are directly in the pond, they stay green through much of the Winter.

Hope that helps!
 

sissy

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I use abs pipe underground as it seems stronger and thicker and I wrap the pipes with pipe insulation also

It seems stronger than pvc a little more cost but seems worth it
 
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Interesting, I thought it was the opposite... ABS was the cheaper solution, but PVC was stronger. I know you cannot use ABS for high-pressure lines, its only rated for drainage, and if the pipe bursts, the ABS will shatter, while the PVC will only tear.

I have a pile of old carpet padding here - I wonder if that would make a good insulation for wrapping the new pipes?
 

sissy

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also I have found that the new flexible water lines work well .I would guess padding would be the same as long as you don't have moles or mice that will get in the ground near it to make a nest .I use the heavy wall abs I guess it must be a little different as I buy it at a plumbing supply store and not Lowes as I have some of the abs here from the plumber and this is thicker and noticed there is a stress rating on the plumbing supply stores kind .Not sure this is what the guy said there at the store when I was looking for supplies as he has a huge pond with 4 drains in the bottom .I went to look at his setup and I was really impressed by what he did .He used all abs for his .He uses biological filter and has a bog also and a waterfall and large fountains and the school photographers take some of there graduation pics there .
 
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Well there are certainly a lot of different types of plastics. Who knows?

I need to look into bog areas before I start digging my new pond. I've seen just enough to perk my interest, but not enough to know if one is feasible in my location, or if the plants would be of interest to me. Guess I should get on that.
 
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Sissy-
Thanks for the idea of using abs instead of pvc. Murphy's law is a tough one.

Shdwdrgn-
Thanks for the photos. Cleared up a little of the cloudieness in my mind. I also want to build a bog garen/filter into my new pond that would feed into my waterfall. The bog seems like a great final step in filtration.

Is it possible to run an external pump aft of the filters if the filters are above the water line?
 

addy1

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I tried a setup like that, the pump drained the gravity fed filter faster than it would fill up. A large line might work, mine was 4 inches.
 

addy1

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water dog said:
Hi
I have almost the same setup

Maybe you can help him with it, mine was a failure, pump drained the filter too fast.
 

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