Please help ill fish!

[popadom]

Hiya everyone i was hoping someone would have some suggestions on what could be wrong or what treatments to try on our fish!

We have a pond thats just under 5000 gallons, it has been set up and running with 8 koi in it for 5 years and we have had these koi as a group for 8 years. There have never been any issues with water quality or disease or anything with them! The filter system we have is a large vortex system and this also runs through a Uv lamp.

Three weeks ago we bought 3 more small koi (only around 6 inches in length) from a local breeder of koi. Our friend who also has a small pond did the same thing. A week ago one of our original fish looked unwell and wasnt feeding or moving with the rest. We took a water sample off to our local fish shop just incase there was something wrong with it. Nothing everything was normal the ph was 7.8 and nitrates etc were all normal. So we came home did a 10% water change and also added some treatment for parasite just incase (cant remember what its called but it turned the pond blue!). We also added 2 air stones just incase it was an oxygen problem!

A day later another fish was also looking ill and now both were laying on the bottom of the pond not doing much while the others were swimming round still however the other fish had stopped eating as much.

Another day passed and 4 fish were ill all still the original ones while the new ones were fine. We caught these koi, did scrapes and looked for parasites, nothing. As this was the first time we had done scrapes ourselves we phoned a local koi specialist shop (over an hours drive away) for advise incase the scrapes we were doing were wrong. He said they could do the scrapes but as we were over an hour away we would have to bring the fish and not just the scrape as the parasites will die bythe time he can see them! So as it was getting late we waited till the following morning caught the fish that was the first to become ill, and took him to the shop, they did a scrape nothing! They tested a water sample we bought along nothing in that either!!!

The guy at the shop thought it may be poisioing of some kind. Our pond is a raised pond with no decking or planted etc that can run in the pond. He thought maybe someone was sparying weed killer and it drifed into our pond. However given the rain we have had the previous week before the first koi became ill we didnt think it could have been this. The best he could suggest is doing a 50% water change and salt baths. So we got home did a water change and started catching and salt bathing the 4 worst koi to see if this made a differnce. The koi maybe swam around for an hour after it then back to the bottom they went. By now they were not only laying at the bottom but were actually on there sides at the bottom. We also got some antibiotic for the food, of which all but the 4 worst koi have had maybe 2-3 pellets of since we have had it.

The day after the 4 were still laying at the bottom and moving intermittently round the pond, but now 2 more of the larger koi were looking slow and starting to sit on the bottom of the pond on there bellies!

Our friend who also had some of the small koi has had no problems what so ever!

We are at our wits end! We feel like we have tried everything we can and still nothing!!!! Please any suggestions from anyone???

 

[popadom]

I Should add when we salt bathed them we health checked them over and can see no signs of fungus, ulcers etc, scales seem fine and also the gills on all the fish are fine too!!!

 

[sissy]

Is it just the new koi and did you put them straight in the pond .i always kept new fish from my pond for at least a month until i was sure .What are the water temps and could it be some kind of shock the fish had from coming from warmer water to colder water

 

[Waterbug]

Step 1. What are your water test results? Ammonia, nitrite, KH, GH, pH. Results like "good" are opinions, not results.

 

[popadom]

Hi, its just the original larger koi that are ill, the small new ones aer fine. The larger ones have been in the pond of 5 years so i dont think its to do with the water temperature.
And the test results were all good/ fine/normal showing no signs of anything. So no ammoina etc the ph was 7.8

 

[addy1]

The new koi could have been carrying a disease that was not affecting them, but it did affect the original koi. I am not a koi keeper, but there is something called kvh or something of that sort that some koi carry, it will kill off a koi pond. If it is that you would need to sterilize your pond. The koi experts will chime in, I am not sure of all of the particulars.

 

[sissy]

Where are your pumps and how deep is your pond .Maybe the water down deep is a problem .Have you checked your filters to make sure they have nothing in them causing the problem .How about your weather rain ,heat ,cold and runoff into the pond can cause problems also .Is there any decomposing matter in the pond or any dead animals hidden some where ,like a bird or a frog .I would look all around the pond and check carefully .My koi aggie kills frogs and I have to scoop them out .Why she does it i don't know .Food maybe or just playing not sure .Have you ever took a pool net and took some stuff from the bottom of the pond and looked at it .Could something have washed into the pond ,heavy rains can carry things for miles .Even sap from pine trees can cause water problems .Especially scrub pines .Not sure what kind of trees you have .Just trying to think of anything and everything .Even pollution can cause problems and ashes from a fire place blowing in pond as my neighbor found that out .

 

[Waterbug]

And the test results were all good/ fine/normal showing no signs of anything. So no ammoina etc the ph was 7.8

I understand, you want to keep the test results secret. Good luck.

 

[popadom]

Hi Sissy and Waterbug,

Sorry for my lack of reply, I have a 7 month old son, and 2 year old lab, and I was away for my brothers stag do 5 hours away and not able to get to a computer to post.

The pump is situated in the opposite corner to the water outlet, and it's maybe 6ft deep, possibly slightly more. My wife originally done the post for me whilst I was away and it should read 5000 litres not gallons!!

I have checked the filters, and they are clean, and don't smell anything other than that usual earthy type smell which I associate with filters.

The pond is raised 3 foot off the ground with a further foot raised at the rear so that the plant border can't run off into the pond. The pond overflow is at such an angle that it is virtually impossible for any backflow going into it.

I have hoovered the bottom of the pond, and with the exception to two leaves and a dead snail there was nothing. I have one tree near to my house and this only overhangs my garden by 2 branches which are not the biggest in the world and the worst I get is a few leaves in August.

I live in a very small village which is remote, very low traffic, no industrial buildings near by etc so I'm hoping I can rule out pollution

The water temp is currently at 13 C, and I don't think it could be environmental (i.e poisons) as 4 of the fish are displaying no signs at all and swimming around happy and the others are displaying very distressing symptoms as mentioned above. I would have thought if the water was poisoned they would all be effected?

My PH was 7.6 - 7.8, Nitrates 0, Ammonia when 1st tested was between 0 - 0.25 however 5 days later this was down to 0. I don't have the readings for the GH/KH however this was done by 2 professionals and they said that the water quality was basically as good as it could get, I'm sorry I can't elaborate any further on that area but I just assumed that this was a good thing, and if there was something to be concerned by they would have made mention of this to me,

What does seem curious is that my biggest and strongest fish was fine 4 days ago and since the others have gone rapidly down hill and look like they are about to keel over, this one now has suddenly become extremely lethargic and laying on it's side on the base of the pond.

This situation really is baffling me, and I'm really worried that I could lose my fish.....

I may try another scrape tomorrow as I just don't know what else to do

 

[sissy]

Did you mention what was going on when you had your water tested

 

[popadom]

Yeah I explained everything to both of the chaps in the different shops. The 1st chap I dealt with was not a specialist so didn't have the facility to scrape and just recomended a broad range treatment as he suspected some kind of parasite, but couldn't be specific without a scrape.

I then went to a specialist's who scraped my koi and tested the water. He couldn't find anything and suggested the pond was poisoned by something and to salt bath.

The reason I went to the non specialist 1st is because he is only 15 minutes from me opposed to the 1 hour 20 minutes for the other.

Like banging your head against a brick wall springs to mind!

 

[sissy]

but if the pond was poisoned it would have showed something on the tests somewhere and all the fish would be this way .What are you feeding your fish and what are your water temps .I feed my fish spring and fall food until the water is above 60 degrees here and even add organic garlic to there food and it helps them feed and fight off diseases .I just mix there fall food in a plastic bag with the ground up garlic and leave it sit for awhile and then feed them .There is also a medicated food you can buy .

 

[popadom]

I feed my koi Nishikoi Staple food, and this has been the same for the last 8 years with the exception to in the summer I add a bit of growth or high protein in with the staple.

I have recently been given some medicated food kindly by my nearby fishery but the problem is the sick fish are not eating so it's almost a pointless exercise

The water is 13 C which is 55 F, but that is mild for UK and I have friends who's water temp is 3 degrees lower and the fish are very jolly and feeding.

 

[sissy]

I don't really know that food but here we have what is called a spring and fall food with wheat germ in it.I wish I could help more but I have thought of as much as I can .I can't understand why if they did tests they are not finding anything .There has to be something missed

 

[fishin4cars]

First of it a poison was released into the pond, there isn't a test kit that will pick up anything. You'll need a extremely expensive piece of equipment to figure that one out. Water changes are the best way to eliminate that as it will dilute and remove other harmful natural wastes at the same time.
2nd, and I don't want to sound to harsh, BUY A TEST KIT! seriously, a test kit costs less than a single replacement fish in most cases. Water quality is the single most important thing you can learn, and understand about koi keeping, the bigger the fish the more important the need to test. Why? larger fish are harder to replace, worth more, and put off more waste.
Last, you mentioned that you did get a fish scraped, did they check the gills for flukes? I too feel like something has been overlooked either by the water quality or the scrapings. There is some information above that is useful but some is so incomplete that it's impossible to try and figure out what's wrong. Water quality is only as good as the readings taken for that given day. Good water? is it good enough to drink?